**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun  6 03:13:16 2002

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---	Topic for #rockbox is Version 1.0 released! http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by adi|home at Tue Jun  4 04:41:56
<Bagder>	howdy adiamas
<adiamas>	howdy...
<adiamas>	just had a major power outage here...
<adiamas>	lasted near 2 hrs
<adiamas>	all year we're find...
<adiamas>	world cup comes on a POOF
<adiamas>	damnit
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	must be a conspiracy somehow ;-)
<adiamas>	damn right
<adiamas>	i blame the canadians
<Bagder>	I miss a tetris for recorder link on the web site
<Bagder>	that lazy web master B-]
<dwihno>	Linus: Will you take on the mission to write the decoder code for the recorder build?
*	Bagder mutters when reading source code written on 160 col lines...
<adiamas>	hehehe
<adiamas>	who did that?
<Bagder>	at work
<Bagder>	silly windows users
<adiamas>	hehehe
<adiamas>	sorry ;)
<adiamas>	i made a deal with a buddy at work...
<adiamas>	he went to 80 cols
<adiamas>	i went to 8 space tabs
<Bagder>	oh, what a sacrifice
<adiamas>	heheh
<Bagder>	I just yell at them ;-)
<Bagder>	and go my way 
<adiamas>	we still bitch at each other ;)-
<Bagder>	hehe
<dwihno>	8 space tabs?!
*	Bagder wonders why he has no friends left ;-)
<dwihno>	Now that's insane
<dwihno>	looks like somebody dropped a bomb in the source code!
<Bagder>	source code should not have tabs, only space
<dwihno>	They should have tabs
*	Bagder casts a spell on dwihno, you windows... eh, windows... person
<dwihno>	what's wrong with tabs?
<Bagder>	people set different tab sizes
<dwihno>	of course
<Bagder>	they are 8 when you print
<dwihno>	:set ts=8
<Bagder>	it make outputs look crap
<dwihno>	depends on what printing stuff you use
<Bagder>	yes, if you're two people you can set requirements on that
<Bagder>	in a development team with many people, you can't
<dwihno>	:)
<Bagder>	believe me, I seen it, done it, used it ;-)
*	Bagder now has 11 years in the "business"
<dwihno>	set ts=4
<dwihno>	whoa
<dwihno>	how old are you?
<dwihno>	40?
<Bagder>	31
<dwihno>	scary
<Bagder>	indeed
<dwihno>	I will NEVER get old! :)
<dwihno>	What kind of education do you possess?
<Bagder>	the hard way, the school of life, spare time assembler and work ;-)
<Bagder>	like Zagor and Linus, I have no formal education in this area
<Bagder>	we're all home brewed
<dwihno>	Are you pleased with your salary?
---	Linus is now known as Linus|very
<Bagder>	is anyone ever? ;-)
<dwihno>	I was
---	Linus|very is now known as Linus|busy
<Bagder>	I am
<dwihno>	Although a bitch coder with ZERO skills had more than me, and that bugged me.
<Bagder>	that's not the case for me
<dwihno>	coderess
<Bagder>	although currently the market isn't exactly splendid
<dwihno>	not really
<Bagder>	it means less money when the customers renegotiates the rates
<dwihno>	MONEY FOR ALL(TM)
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<Bagder>	hey ironi
<dwihno>	damn
<ironi>	hi there
<ironi>	*yawn*
*	dwihno just realized that writing sql queries sometimes is a pain in the /dev/arse
<ironi>	dwihno: why is that
<dwihno>	I want to return multiple counts
<dwihno>	in 1 query
<dwihno>	+----+--------+----+-----------+
<dwihno>	| id | name   | id | projectid |
<dwihno>	+----+--------+----+-----------+
<dwihno>	|  2 | Apan   |  1 |        39 |
<dwihno>	|  2 | Apan   |  2 |        40 |
<dwihno>	|  2 | Apan   |  3 |        41 |
<dwihno>	|  3 | Assar  |  1 |        39 |
<dwihno>	+----+--------+----+-----------+
<dwihno>	I want to return the projectid count for every id [left one]
<adiamas>	1. i don't know if postgres lets you
<adiamas>	2. if you could, you prob do it in a sub query
<adiamas>	ie: select count(id) from table where id in (select unique id from table)
<adiamas>	or some such
<adiamas>	but i dont' think you can do it..
<adiamas>	i know in oracle we have to do a seperate count for each
<ironi>	you cnat do sub querys in postgres
<ironi>	?
<dwihno>	me is using mysql
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	anyway
<ironi>	i dont unbderstand what you want
<ironi>	i dont gett the table
<dwihno>	I have a table linking two tables together
<dwihno>	to make multiple selection of objects available
<ironi>	ok sure
<dwihno>	the link table has the userid and projectid
<ironi>	you have a like a projcet table , a member table, and a project_member table?
<dwihno>	and for every user, I want to count the number of projects matching the user id, in a single query
<ironi>	saying which member is involved in which project
<dwihno>	yup
<ironi>	but is the table you pasted the result you want, right?
<dwihno>	nope
<dwihno>	just some example stuff :)
<ironi>	eh,....
<ironi>	caue your project_user tablejust has project id and member id, right
<dwihno>	yup
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	well that is impossible with out a subquery
<ironi>	and in mysql you cant do them
<dwihno>	darn!
<ironi>	well maybe you could do a join
<dwihno>	I wanted to draw a cute progress bar :)
<ironi>	it was a while since i used sql
<dwihno>	1 query per user would be a pain in the arse
<ironi>	yeah
<dwihno>	but who gives a shit ;)
<ironi>	but...
<ironi>	cant you just do a loop?
<dwihno>	1 query to get the ID's and then 1 query per userid
<ironi>	well eya
<ironi>	yea
<ironi>	loop trough the id's , getting the result for each
<ironi>	or can't you do your progress bar then?
<dwihno>	Hehe
<dwihno>	The progress bar makes the stuff so CUTE! :D
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<dwihno>	Why did I ever start doing SQL stuff?!
*	dwihno dumps the idea of progress bar ;)
<ironi>	dwihno: are you doing php with it ?
<dwihno>	ironi: jees
<dwihno>	Pee Höö Pee
<ironi>	but dwihno
<ironi>	cant you do select user.name, count(projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=poject.userid
<ironi>	or am i thinking wrong
<ironi>	ooops
<ironi>	select user.name, count(user_project.projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=user_project.userid
<ironi>	dwihno: how about that?
<ironi>	dwihno! wake up!
*	Bagder offers ironi the microphone and turns up the volume of the loadspeakers
<ironi>	thank you
<ironi>	*harkel*
<dwihno>	ironi: hellö hellö
<ironi>	dwihno: so?
<dwihno>	What who how?
<ironi>	read the last query i wrote
<dwihno>	*read*
<ironi>	cant you do it like that?
<dwihno>	hey, that might work
<ironi>	im kinda embarrased i didnt come up with it immediately
<dwihno>	Don't be! :)
<dwihno>	You gave me the DELL tip! :D
<ironi>	ehm
<ironi>	i think you will have to group by
<ironi>	select user.name, count(user_project.projectid) from user,user_project WHERE user.userid=user_project.userid GROUP BY user.username
<ironi>	otherwise you weill get count for all rows on all rows
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	ok i should be group by user.name if i used user.name inthe slect clause
<ironi>	but u know what i mean
<dwihno>	Yeah
<dwihno>	YOU GAVE ME THE DELL TIP! :D
<ironi>	so did this work?
<dwihno>	I'm fiddling
<dwihno>	Battery charged
<dwihno>	I love my archos
<dwihno>	I never realized I couldn't live without it before I actually got it!
<ironi>	my just shows charging...
<Bagder>	dwihno: you tried tetris on it yet?
<ironi>	i dont use mine as much as i should
<dwihno>	Bagder: No tetris for the recorder yet ;/
<Bagder>	there is
<Bagder>	wait
<dwihno>	There is?
*	Bagder scans for the URL
<Bagder>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/tetris.ajz
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<Bagder>	it doesn't spin down the HD though
<dwihno>	hey, it worked
<dwihno>	Bagder: how come?
<Bagder>	the ATA code should do that
<Bagder>	... and it doesn't work on the recorder yet :-)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	Then why are you IRC:ing?! :)
<Bagder>	hm
<Bagder>	I don't know ;-)
<ironi>	dwihno: you're welcome
<ironi>	after 10 credits of sql i should have given you the answer immediately
<ironi>	=
<ironi>	)
*	ironi is gone, out in da sun [l/on p/on]
<dwihno>	ironi: THE SUN WILL GET YOU KILLED! Get back here! :)
<ironi>	i have my ray-bans
*	Bagder gets valgrind and ddives in
<dwihno>	valgrind?
<Bagder>	"Valgrind, an open-source memory debugger for x86-GNU/Linux"
<Hadaka>	valgrind is nice
<dwihno>	I will invent something too!
<dwihno>	I know, a new X11 toolkit! ;D
<Bagder>	valgrind is really nice
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<Hadaka>	hey, have you guys looked into 'newlib'?
<Linus>	you mean the removal of it?
<Hadaka>	hm, I'm quite out of things - removal?
<dwihno>	What's newlib btw?
<Hadaka>	nm, I'd better read the mailinglist archives before I ask stupid questions
<Hadaka>	Newlib is a C library intended for use on embedded systems.
<Linus>	I thought you meant if we had gotten rid of our newlib dependencies yet
<Linus>	we use newlib today
<Hadaka>	why do you want to get rid of it?
<Linus>	but only for a few functions
<dwihno>	Hadaka: Ah, okay
<Linus>	because it is of no use to us other that for the header files
<dwihno>	header files are evil! :)
<Linus>	:-)
<Hadaka>	hm ok, I don't know enough to comment
<dwihno>	#include <linus_secret_stuff.h>
<dwihno>	That's all you need when doing embedded stuff! :)
<Linus>	We used newlib in the beginning when we didn't have much implemented
<Linus>	but now we have all that newlib has to offer internally
<Linus>	that gives us a smaller footprint
*	dwihno counted project time today
<Linus>	and you don't need to compile newlib when you build the cross compiler
<dwihno>	<-- is gonna afford a kickass DELL box! :D
<Linus>	dwihno: a laptop?
<Hadaka>	same interface as newlib or your own?
<dwihno>	yup :)
<Linus>	Hadaka: same. it's ISO standard
<dwihno>	with geforce go card
<Hadaka>	ok
<dwihno>	So I can play cstrike
<Linus>	dwihno: have an URL?
<dwihno>	http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/se/sve/dhs/products/model_inspn_inspn_2650.htm
<Linus>	dwihno: phew! that's a BEAST!
<Linus>	a bit heavy, though
<dwihno>	The tip of the day: The bread "gräddad längtan" is yum with salad and stuff :)
<Linus>	and i would like better resolution that 1024X768
<dwihno>	Linus: As long as it works ;D
<dwihno>	I like 1024
<dwihno>	So I'm gonna dual-boot with linux
<dwihno>	Linus: You should get some lunch!
<Hadaka>	I've been very happy since I uninstalled windows my laptops
<dwihno>	Hadaka: I need Windows for Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator etc. :/
<Hadaka>	I usually get several months uptime for my laptop
<dwihno>	yum!
<dwihno>	Now that's what I call a good lunch!
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*	Bagder made his first customized valgrind supresses
*	dwihno is back from the quake session
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<dwihno>	havard kvålen?
<havardk>	emm, yes?
<dwihno>	Cool :)
<webmind>	try icelandic
<havardk>	dwihno : who are you, and why do you know my name? :)
*	Bagder awaits the answer ;-)
<Bagder>	havardk: tried rockbox?
<havardk>	no, I haven't
<havardk>	I don't have an Archos, although I've been thinking about getting one
<Bagder>	hehe, ok
<Bagder>	well I haven't *really* tried it either as I have a recorder and we don't do well on that yet
<Bagder>	I've only seen it on Björn's player
*	webmind waits untill is as equal or more features and les bugs then original firmware
<webmind>	it has
<Bagder>	that might take a while .-)
*	dwihno waits until it show other than ata: -5 on the recorder ;)
<webmind>	badi have patience
<webmind>	er
<webmind>	Bagder, 
<webmind>	damn this keyboard
<Bagder>	I'm a bit dissapointed no one tried my playlist code on target yet
<Linus>	I am about to.
<Bagder>	oh
<Bagder>	I better hide then ;-)
<Linus>	but i have *shrug* work to do...
*	dwihno starts the drumroll
<Bagder>	WORK?! aaaah
<dwihno>	My hands are getting tired... Test the godforsaken playlist code :)
<Bagder>	endurance you need
<Linus>	a world record you will beat, my young apprentice
<dwihno>	Linus: Get back to work ;)
<Linus>	yes. master
<dwihno>	Damn, it's hot outside!
<dwihno>	Obey me, you will
<Linus>	:-)
<Bagder>	rockbox is gaining rank quickly on sourceforge activity
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<Bagder>	hi edx
<edx>	yo
---	edx is now known as edx|class
<edx|class>	:)
<edx|class>	irony.. you got the css file of the internet site?
<edx|class>	i think there's the defualt font set for linux... take like arial / sans ms for that..
<edx|class>	hmm bagder.. any progress regarding ata?
<edx|class>	gotta go
<Bagder>	no progress yet
<Linus>	I'm beginning my Recorder serial mod now...keep your fingers crossed
*	Bagder crosses everything he has
<Linus>	Strange...the Line In is already patched on my Recorder
<Bagder>	uh!
<Linus>	two long wires across the entire CPU board
<Linus>	and connected to two capacitors
<Linus>	I'll just remove them and connect them to the serial port...
<Linus>	...scalpel, nurse...
*	dwihno hands Linus the crowbar
<Hadaka>	ehh
<dwihno>	Linus: patched?
<dwihno>	Linus: In what way?
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<jedix>	hey
<dwihno>	hey ho
<jedix>	whats up?
<Bagder>	we're busy crossing fingers for Linus
<Bagder>	he has his fingers in his Archos as we speak ;-)
<jedix>	cool
<jedix>	I dunno how to handle this scrolling thing without this being OO or threads
*	dwihno crosses his toes too
<dwihno>	See? :)
<dwihno>	ooo
<dwihno>	 O
<dwihno>	hmm
<dwihno>	:)
<Bagder>	we have threads
<jedix>	see the problem is right now, it just does scrolling.. all the time, and nothing else
<jedix>	its in a while(true) loop... :/
<Bagder>	yes, but it could be in its own thread
<Bagder>	perhaps
<jedix>	yes, that would do it
<Bagder>	there's a minor drawback with that: we don't have threads in the simulator (yet) ;-/
<jedix>	an other small problem is that it scrolls well past the screen(takes a while for it to come back)
<Bagder>	how do you mean?
<jedix>	it scrolls to the left until you can;t see it.. but then it keeps going
<Bagder>	so make it not do that ;-)
<jedix>	yeah, working on that :)
<jedix>	also, the text warps around the line on me..
<jedix>	where does that happen?
<Bagder>	that's a flaw in the simulator
<jedix>	oh, ok
<Bagder>	I'll have a look at it right now
<Bagder>	that's lcd_puts() in a player, right?
<jedix>	yeah
<jedix>	brb, going to get breakfast
<Bagder>	ok, I'll commit a fix
<Bagder>	hm, bad fix
<Bagder>	better
<jedix>	hehe
<jedix>	so, if I update my cvs.. will my changes be removed?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	they'll be merged
<jedix>	k
<jedix>	i get a few errors
<Bagder>	when updating?
<jedix>	building
<Bagder>	show me
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/build/tree.o: In function `peek_next_track':
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/tree.c:213: undefined reference to `playlist_next'
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/build/tree.o: In function `dirbrowse':
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/tree.c:307: undefined reference to `play_list'
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/build/play.o: In function `playtune':
<jedix>	/home/liam/archos/uisimulator/x11/../../apps/play.c:88: undefined reference to `mpeg_play'
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<Bagder>	did you update the uisimulator tree too?
<jedix>	I updated everything
<Bagder>	hm, do 'make clean' and 'make' again to be sure 
<jedix>	same thing
<jedix>	you don't get this?
<Bagder>	nope, and neither do http://daniel.haxx.se/rockbox-auto/
<jedix>	cvs update -dP in the root dir..
<Bagder>	where you checked out "." ?
<jedix>	yeah
<jedix>	yeah
<jedix>	sorry, wrong window
<jedix>	cvs update: move away uisimulator/x11/xmu.h; it is in the way
<jedix>	C uisimulator/x11/xmu.h
<jedix>	is that ok?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	I mean, sure you can remove it, and it'll come back when you update
<Bagder>	but it shouldn't say that in the first place
<Bagder>	hm, are you running make in the uisimulator/x11 dir?
<jedix>	I did once.. but I just deleted that dir
<Bagder>	the uisimulator/x11 ?
<jedix>	I got it now
<jedix>	i deleted the uisimulator dir
<jedix>	and it works
<Bagder>	it works without that dir?
<jedix>	no I updated and got it again
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	fine
<jedix>	the text still wraps to the next line though
<jedix>	but I fixed my scroll problem :)
<Bagder>	wraps one letter or completely?
<jedix>	completely
<dwihno>	cool stuff :D
---	dwihno is now known as dw|weekend
<dw|weekend>	SWEDEN SHALL WIN! :D
<jedix>	I'm sure its thursday
<dw|weekend>	Me too
<dw|weekend>	I'm taking the day off
<dw|weekend>	1) watch the game
<dw|weekend>	2) go for a weekend trip
<jedix>	nice
<Bagder>	jedix: regarding the wrapping, you either check out why in the lcd_puts() or I fix that when I code that shows this happen
<jedix>	k
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<Bagder>	I think I know why it happens
<Bagder>	it's a define issue
<jedix>	after I print a line of text I try to clear the rectangle.. but it doesn;t work
<Hadaka>	running mkfs.vfat on my archos right now
<Hadaka>	would I need to specify the logical sector size by hand?
<Bagder>	I don't know
<Hadaka>	well I didn't, anyway
<Hadaka>	though I did put -F 32 just in case
<Bagder>	yes, you need that
<Bagder>	if I recall correctly
<Hadaka>	I wonder how long this will take
<Hadaka>	ooh, finished
<Hadaka>	hmm! where does this thing save the play mode?
<Hadaka>	after mkfs.vfat, it still is in random play
<Bagder>	it saved in an unused sector
<Bagder>	+is
<Hadaka>	unused sector outside the filesystem?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	one of the first ones
<jedix>	what is LCD_WIDTH measured in? is it the amount of chars that can be displayed on the screen?
<Hadaka>	ok so if I stumbled around with fdisk, I could get it erased or something?
<Bagder>	jedix: that is pixels, and is only available for bitmap LCDs
<jedix>	Bagder: how do I get the lenght on the other screen?
<Bagder>	Hadaka: I'm not really sure, I'm mostly repeating things I've learned from the others right now
<Bagder>	I dunno
<Bagder>	maybe there's a define, maybe not ;-)
<Hadaka>	yikes, cache writes are scary
<Bagder>	Linus: what's the status?
<Hadaka>	weird - I get 10Mb/sec transfer rates and then total lockups when it actually writes the stuff to the disk
<Bagder>	uh :-(
<Hadaka>	ooh I love preemptiple kernel patch
<Hadaka>	load at 4 :)
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<edx>	hi
<Bagder>	rehi
<jedix>	Hadaka = Linus?
<jedix>	hey edx
<jedix>	oh... nm
<edx>	heh.. your function is working now?
<Hadaka>	nno, I'm not linus :)
<Linus>	I am Linus
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<Linus>	i have connected the serial port on the recorder
<Linus>	but the Tx isn't quite working
<Linus>	i might have to dust off the oscilloscope
<edx>	that's for debugging?
<Linus>	yes
<edx>	might that help with the ata problem?
<Linus>	of course
<jedix>	edx: sorta working
<edx>	ah ok
<edx>	*teatime* :)
---	Linus is now known as Linus|verybusy
<edx>	linux: to me it seems the memory area for the command is wrong (but i dont know much about that h/w business)
---	edx is now known as edx|tea
<Linus|verybusy>	edx|tea: not according to the schematics
<Linus|verybusy>	Guys! Do we know if the clock frequency on the recorder is 12MHz as well?
<Bagder>	I don't
<Linus|verybusy>	The schematics say 11.05
<Bagder>	oh
<Linus|verybusy>	that means i have to recalculate the baud generator...
<Bagder>	yeah
<Bagder>	no wonder it doesn't work ;-)
<Hadaka>	is the cpu in these running at full speed at all times - or is there some halt mechanism?
<Bagder>	I believe there is some kind of sleep mode, but then we probably can't be playing mp3
<Hadaka>	but while playing, the thing is running at full cpu?
<Bagder>	yes
---	edx|tea is now known as edx
<edx>	hmm the frequenzy doesnt have anything to do with ata, does it?
*	edx wants ata to work :)
<Bagder>	but the frequency needs to be known for the serial port to work
<Bagder>	without serial port, no gdb
<edx>	yea.. serial port..
<Bagder>	without gdb, no ata debugging
<edx>	but ata .. hehe
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<Hadaka>	     6293838 100%   56.69kB/s    0:01:47
<Hadaka>	      968704 100%   12.75MB/s    0:00:00
<Hadaka>	I wonder if all this fluctuation is caused by the preemptible kernel patch or the uhci stuff or the fact that I have debug output still on in usb-storage
<jedix>	that good or bad?
<Hadaka>	well I dunno - I can tell when the transfer is finished that what was the total speed
<Hadaka>	it's a tad bit annoying atleast not to see the real transfer speed since you only see files going into the cache - and then going out of the cache afterwards
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<Coug>	hey all
<Coug>	hello?
<edx>	hi
<webmind>	hi
<Coug>	ah finally
<Coug>	are any of you developers in the rockbox project?
<webmind>	some
<Coug>	is there any ambition to add aac support to the firmware?
<webmind>	aac?
<webmind>	what's that?
<Coug>	advanced audio something
<webmind>	doubt it
<Coug>	low bitrate - high quality
<webmind>	cos mp3 decoding is done trhough hardware
<webmind>	through
<Coug>	ah
<webmind>	decoding chip
<Coug>	dang
<Coug>	do you know, are there any dos drivers for the archos?
<webmind>	so i think mp3/mpeg will be it
<webmind>	doubt it
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<Coug>	is there a way to create recorder drivers for dos?
<webmind>	if u can get usb to work in dos
<Coug>	how can you do that?
<webmind>	get drivers
<webmind>	doubt they exist though
<Coug>	lol
<Coug>	you mean just straight usb drivers?
<webmind>	well
<Coug>	or archos recorder drivers?
<webmind>	u need usb support no ?
<Coug>	of course
<webmind>	afaik archos uses usb.. so
<webmind>	u need usb support in dos
<Coug>	true
<webmind>	and support for the usb harddrive controller
<webmind>	isd200
<Coug>	ok
<Coug>	but you can use usb keyboards in dos
<Coug>	so there has to be at least some level of usb support
<webmind>	dunno bout that
<satino>	can my archos jukebox work under linux?
<Coug>	if you get linux drivers
<satino>	is it easy to set up?
<Coug>	webmind - my whole goal here is to turn the archos into a bootable harddrive
<webmind>	satino, sure.. linux support is the current kernel
<webmind>	Coug, ah.. i think u need bios support then
<webmind>	Coug, dunno if there are any bios's that support booting from usb hd
<Coug>	i was thinking about a boot disk (floppy) that allows you to then boot to the archos
<webmind>	Coug, ah.. then try a linux boot disk :)
<webmind>	that has drivers :)
<Coug>	for the archos though?
<miah>	to get the archos workign in linux, you need a kernel that supports SCSI, and USB ISD2000, you wont see the ISD2000 config option unless scsi is enabled though
<satino>	webmind, well, do I need to compile a new kernel?
<webmind>	satino, if u dont have support build in.. probably yes
<webmind>	Coug, if u have your bootdisk with a kernel with acrhos support u just access it as a scsi harddrive.. and thus boot from it
<Coug>	webmind - how will that work, because i want to boot windows xp
<Coug>	could i close linux and then still boot?
<Coug>	webmind - could you lead me through the general process (starting with the floppy) for a bootable archos?
<webmind>	Coug, u wont be able to run xp from it
<webmind>	not booting
<Coug>	that is why i was thinking DOS
<webmind>	wont work
<webmind>	xp doesnt run from dos either
<webmind>	u need to load the support for the archos at boot from a different medium
<Coug>	could i then make a bootable cd?
<webmind>	with linux u can put the kernel with the added support on a floppy disk
<webmind>	can't do that with xp
<webmind>	not with winxp
<Coug>	techinically, why not?
<webmind>	cos winxp needs write access
<Coug>	why couldnt it then use the c:\ drive or the archos?
<webmind>	and it's not reilly possible to determin the files that need to be writeable and put those on a ram disk
<webmind>	Coug, it could.. but not for booting
<webmind>	and it needs the system files for booting
<Coug>	if the cd just enabled the usb and the driver support for the archos, could you allow the comp to see the archos for booting?
<Coug>	like use the cd as a driver for the archos?
<Coug>	kind of like Microsoft did with Windows 95 and the CD
<Coug>	build in a "mini OS" that allows a program to run off of the CD
<webmind>	Coug, yes.. but u cant do that with winxp
<Coug>	or archos in this case?
<Coug>	can you follow my line of reasoning for a sec?
<Coug>	put in a floppy, or cd, and boot to dos
<Coug>	load the archos drivers for dos that allow read/write access
<Coug>	then start the boot process from the archos
<Coug>	where would the files need to be written to during boot?
<webmind>	Coug, xp doesnt support booting from dos...
<Coug>	ah, how does it work?
<webmind>	xp boots on its own
<webmind>	starting from the NT system windows stopts using dos as underlying platform
<Coug>	ok
<webmind>	xp is followup from windows 200 which is windows nt
<Coug>	so i could do that with 98, but not xp?
<webmind>	windowsm 2000
<webmind>	Coug, u might be able to do it with win98 yes
<webmind>	if u can get dos drivers
<webmind>	which u would probably have to make yourself
<Coug>	that i may be able to do
<Coug>	is there a way to trick xp into thinking that dos is not running?
<webmind>	hehe
<webmind>	not that simple
<Coug>	or a way to initiate the boot process from dos?
<webmind>	dunno.. but doubt it
<Coug>	i figured it wouldnt be, but it was worth a shot
<webmind>	u could run xp within linux though.. but then u would lose a lot of andvantages
<webmind>	like support for 3d cards and stuff
<Coug>	ya
<Coug>	vmware?
<webmind>	uhuh
<webmind>	thereby.. remeber.. archos only can get 1mb/s
<Coug>	i dont have a liscense for it
<webmind>	which is quite slow
<Coug>	ya
<Coug>	no kidding
<Coug>	so.... the trick is tricking the bios into thinking that the archos is a harddrive.....
<Coug>	that doesnt sound easy
<webmind>	u need usb harddrive support in the bios then
<webmind>	..
<webmind>	and i haven't seen that before
<webmind>	scsi, zip, ls120.. but no usb hd's
<Coug>	then.... is there a way to start the xp boot process from a disk and load the archos driver very early, then refer it to the archos?
<edx>	coug.. they are loaded very early..
<edx>	i once had scandisc run over my archos at boot time
<Coug>	hmmm...... so i could put some of the xp files on a cd then refer the other files to the x:\ or whatever drive?
<Coug>	maybe?
<webmind>	u could put some of the files on the archos yes
<webmind>	proably the stuff like programs
<webmind>	but XP still needs to find them
<Coug>	but windows xp wont all fit on a CD will it?
<webmind>	dont think so
<webmind>	thereby i doubt it will boot from cd
<webmind>	btw, why do u want to boot xp from archos ?
<webmind>	i mean.. it will run terribly slow
<Coug>	i am attending a college that wont allow me to use my archos because of security restrictions
<Coug>	but they allow the download of programs
<webmind>	lovely
<Coug>	so i wanted to download things and put them on the archos
<webmind>	so why boot xp from it ?
<Coug>	and i LOVE xp
<webmind>	well it's not helping u here
<Coug>	and i HATE 98
<Coug>	i know
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<webmind>	i can tell u linux would most likely work
<Coug>	and my friend is a Mac fan *shudder* and he brags that he can put his firewire drive in and boot to it
<webmind>	and if u want to keep full compatibility of the filesystem u could even put your filesystem in a file
<webmind>	u'd just put the kernel on a floppy
<Coug>	how would you boot that?
<webmind>	u'd have look into some docs
<Coug>	i dont know much at all about the boot process of OSes
<Coug>	ok
<webmind>	i'm no expert on the field
<webmind>	but i know what can be done
<Coug>	i dont know what *can* be done, but i am a programmer, so, if it can be thought of, it *can* be done
<webmind>	easiest way would probably be making a different partition on the arcohs
<Coug>	in one way or another
<webmind>	archos
<Coug>	hey.... thats a good idea, but can you do that and still have windows support?
<webmind>	Coug, well for windows solution it sometimes CAN be done.. but not withouth braking laws
<Coug>	do they not allow you to tweak certain things?
<webmind>	edx, do u know if the archos has problems if there are unsupported partitions on the drive ?
<webmind>	Coug, some things.. not most of the things..
<webmind>	Coug,  i think u need detailed info on xp if u want to tweak the boot process
<Coug>	do you know where i could get that?
<Coug>	please dont say Microsoft KB
<webmind>	i dont think there is a legal way
<webmind>	unless MS is willing to provide the ingo
<webmind>	info
<webmind>	which i doubt
<Coug>	i dont see why they wouldnt disclose how to boot xp from a cd......
<Coug>	but it is Microsoft
<webmind>	indeed..
<webmind>	they disclose i lot they dont need to
<webmind>	i=a
<webmind>	but i'd say linux should do the trick
<Coug>	ya
<Coug>	but i dont know how to do crap with linux
<webmind>	windows support of the archos wont be the problem i think
<webmind>	but i dont know if the device itself as problems with unsupoorted partitions
<webmind>	Coug, figure it out then :)
<Coug>	lol
<Coug>	i try
<Coug>	but dont know any c or c++ so it gets difficult
<webmind>	if u want to spent time in it.. it's not hard to learn
<Coug>	and alot of my stuff is unsupported by my flavor of linux
<webmind>	u'r a delphi coder?
<Coug>	VB
<Coug>	i have done a little delphi
<webmind>	sorry.. i'd hardly call that a programmer
<Coug>	and i have a good friend that is a delphi coder
<Coug>	i do some java too
<webmind>	delphi is something
<Coug>	no... not jscript
<webmind>	java is indeed coding
<webmind>	but sorry.. visual basic is not
<Coug>	i have worked with basic too
<Coug>	why isnt vb coding?
<webmind>	still
<Coug>	too easy?
<webmind>	cos it's not
<webmind>	it;s just a toolkit
<webmind>	doesn't have any real power
<Coug>	i like to think that i do alot of my own stuff in vb and dont always use pre programmed stuff
<webmind>	vb is preprogrammed
<Coug>	infact, i wrote a program that calculates factorial numbers
<webmind>	u can do that scripting...
<Coug>	and i had to write the multiplication procedure from the ground up
<Coug>	using integers instead of other types
<Coug>	the numbers got too big
<Coug>	the largest number i have calculated is 15000!....
<Coug>	it was 56,140 digits long
<webmind>	..
<Coug>	so..... i did have to do some programming there
<Coug>	but otherwise, you a right
<Coug>	vb is just a toolkit
<Coug>	a = are
*	webmind prfers perl or c
<webmind>	prefers
<Coug>	ya
<Coug>	i would love to learn c or c++
<webmind>	learn it then
<webmind>	not that hard
<webmind>	lot's of books about it
<Coug>	i am taking a class next year in school over c++
<Coug>	i'll probably wait until then
<webmind>	and dont use vc++ or c# or anything
<Coug>	lol
<Coug>	why not vc++?
<webmind>	cos it's to dependant
<Coug>	oh
<Coug>	ok
<webmind>	i'd advice to first build general C/C++ knowledge
<webmind>	instead of just learning to code some win apps
<Coug>	will do
<Coug>	of course
<webmind>	that way u can choose for what platform u want to code.. or even code for all platforms
<Coug>	ya
<webmind>	which will make you far more flexible.. and as a bonus more interesting for the job market :)
<Coug>	true
<Coug>	so..... do you think that booting xp from cd/archos is a waste of time? or even feasable?
<miah>	its a waste of time
<webmind>	Coug, i dont think it's actually possible.. and if it is.. a waste of time
<Coug>	ah
<Coug>	ok
<webmind>	especially since if it will run.. it will run as slow as hell
<Coug>	how could i boot linux then?
<Coug>	and have archos support?
<miah>	install linux
<webmind>	get a linux boot disk with archos support
<miah>	build kernel with archos support
<miah>	and you're set
<webmind>	use your archos as root device
<webmind>	done
<Coug>	miah - i cant install anything to the harddrive of the computer
<miah>	why?
<Coug>	its not my computer
<webmind>	miah, school machine
<miah>	ah
<miah>	buy a computer?
<webmind>	Coug, fix it on your won machine
<miah>	they're what $200 now?
<webmind>	own
<miah>	if you can afford a archos, you can certainly afford a computer
<Coug>	nah nah, its not that, i dont have high speed internet at home
<webmind>	Coug, install linux then on your archos
<Coug>	and i cant hook my archos at school
<Coug>	(security)
<Coug>	webmind - ok
<webmind>	Coug, it's doable.. but it is some work...
<webmind>	but way more doable then with xp
<Coug>	will mandrake 8.1 work with the archos easily?
<Coug>	ok
<webmind>	Coug, i'd advice debian
<webmind>	Coug, takes less
<Coug>	ok
<Coug>	where can i get that and how big is the dl?
<Coug>	and is there built-in archos support?
<webmind>	u can have a minimal graphical installation for under 300mb
<Coug>	one thing though is that i want X and i would like KDE but KDE isnt nessecary
<webmind>	Coug, dunno if the archos support is on the installdisk.. but otherwise u need a custom installdisk
<webmind>	Coug, i think u want something light... since it's a damn slow device.. so i wouldn't go further then a light gnome installation
<Coug>	how about network config?
<Coug>	easy?
<webmind>	Coug, but windowmaker, blackbox or icewm would be more doable i think
<webmind>	Coug, u can use dhcp
<webmind>	asuming the network has that
<Coug>	if it matters, it is a novell network
<Hadaka>	err um, how does one boot from an usb connected archos device?
<webmind>	Hadaka, bootdisk
<webmind>	floppy
<Coug>	but doesnt require authentication, proved using the mac boot drive
<Coug>	boot = bootable
<Hadaka>	bootdisk with the kernel and stuff?
<Coug>	ya
<webmind>	Hadaka, uhuh
<Hadaka>	hrm, nasty
<webmind>	Hadaka, just the kernel and maybe lilo
<webmind>	easy as pie
<Coug>	why need lilo?
<Coug>	cant i just set it to boot to the archos no matter what?
<webmind>	Coug, could help with defining rootdevice.. not sure though
<Coug>	the only time i would use the disk is when the archos is being used
<Coug>	ok
<Hadaka>	grub and a kernel would be good enough I guess
<Coug>	that makes sense
<webmind>	Coug, don't know detail;s about making bootdisks.. but i think u should be able to tell the kernel that archos is rootdevice
<Coug>	ok
<Coug>	but what about the drivers?
<Hadaka>	you need scsi support, usb support (correct uhci/ohci support) and usb-storage support compiled into the kernel
<webmind>	Coug, only real problem would be that i dont know how the archos reacts on unsupported partitions
<Coug>	will the kernel automatically recognize the archos?
<Coug>	ah, that is the thing
<Coug>	yes.....
<Hadaka>	then your root device would just be /dev/sda1 - or /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 with devfs :)
<Coug>	lets say that i partitioned my archos with linux included, if it didnt work, would there be any way to get it back?
<Hadaka>	but if you are using grub (or even lilo) as the boot loader - you can tell the name of the root device while booting if that isn't correct (a machine has other scsi drives=
<Hadaka>	yes
<Hadaka>	the usb connection always works
<Coug>	how?
<Hadaka>	regardless
<Hadaka>	loads from the flash-rom firmware, gives direct access to the disk - then you can reformat it normally again if it doesn't work
<Coug>	would windows recognize the archos as a regular archos drive then, and i would just repartition and format?
<Hadaka>	well I don't know what windows does with drives like that - but a windows fdisk or similar should be able to repartition it back the way it was
<Hadaka>	but as long as there is a FAT partition first in the drive, I'm guessing that it will work just fine
<Coug>	ok
<Coug>	webmind - i found a 36 meg debian install
<Coug>	how does that work?
<Hadaka>	that's the netinstall image
<Coug>	meaning.....?
<edx>	itll download files later...
<Hadaka>	it's able to install the kernel and the base system - and everything else is downloaded from the net
<edx>	after you chose packages.
<Hadaka>	...actually the images on that disk are able to install the kernel and the base system from the net as well
<Coug>	would i need to download anything from the net to get it to work?
<edx>	depends on what you wanna do :)
<Hadaka>	well yes - you just get the base system with that - it doesn't have a lot of anything
<Coug>	does it have a web browser?
---	edx is now known as edx|eatz
<Hadaka>	don't think so
<Hadaka>	nor X
<Coug>	dang
<edx|eatz>	no.. not even graphic user interface 
<Hadaka>	it's just a base image
<Hadaka>	the bare bones that will let the system boot
<Hadaka>	and install more packages
<Coug>	dang
<Hadaka>	what's so dang about it?
<Hadaka>	it's the best way to install - everything else requires you to download more
<Coug>	but i dont have fast internet at home
<Coug>	26,400 kbps
<edx|eatz>	:/
<Coug>	ya
<Coug>	well....
<Hadaka>	well then you would probably want the full iso images
<Coug>	i gotta get going now, thanks for all the help
<edx|eatz>	cu
<Coug>	i should be back on later todat
<Coug>	today*
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<jedix>	..
<jedix>	anyone around?
---	edx|eatz is now known as edx
<edx>	i am
<jedix>	cool
<jedix>	do you know about threads with this device?
<edx>	ouhm... not much
<jedix>	oh, ok.  my code works ok, but it really needs to be in a thread
<edx>	hm... create_thread is the function
<jedix>	that way it can be told to sleep..
<edx>	int create_thread(void* fp, void* sp, int stk_size);
<jedix>	how are they handled?
<edx>	hmm dont know to tell the truth :)
<jedix>	ah well
<jedix>	what else besides scrolling text needs to be done then?
<edx>	hmm dont know either lol
<jedix>	do you want to see the scrolling text?
<edx>	ata for recorder needs to be working
<edx>	why no :)
<edx>	*why not
<edx>	lol
<edx>	ie. i want to see it
<jedix>	..how about something i can work on..?
<jedix>	k
<edx>	is it in cvs?
<jedix>	I don't think I can dcc it..
<edx>	mail it.
<jedix>	i don't think I can check things in
<edx>	edx@codeforce.d2g.com
<edx>	mail the source.. ill compile for the simulator then
<jedix>	k, its off
<edx>	ok
<jedix>	tree.c is only edited so that my function is used
<edx>	where do you come from btw...
<jedix>	?
<jedix>	what do you mean
<edx>	what country
<edx>	i am German
<jedix>	canada
<edx>	ah.. cool
<jedix>	i'm at "work" right now..
<edx>	(just got your mail)
<jedix>	government for ya..
<jedix>	what do you thing
<edx>	hmm get compiler errors... /fixing at  the moment
<jedix>	what are they?
<edx>	like playlist_next undefined.. :/
<edx>	uisw32 error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _usleep referenced in function _lcd_textscroll
<edx>	where is usleep ;)
<edx>	got it
<jedix>	that should be ok
<edx>	oh well.. not really.. :(
<jedix>	?
<edx>	is that some linux function?
<jedix>	maybe
<jedix>	you could try sleep(1)
<edx>	usleep(80000);
<edx>	ugh.. 
<edx>	how many msecs are that?
<jedix>	.8 sec
<edx>	when should it be scrolling?
<jedix>	...
<jedix>	did you replace the other file too?
<jedix>	in apps/ tree.c?
<jedix>	thats the only file that calls it right now
<edx>	yea.. when is it called?
<jedix>	and it will run forever.. so don't overwrite
<jedix>	its only called if you have a recorder I think
<edx>	a player.. you mean?
<jedix>	do you get BROWSE ~~~
<edx>	it is not defined for the recorder lol
<jedix>	instead of Browse
<jedix>	get it to be called and it will scroll
<jedix>	edx: what are you working on?
<edx>	win32 simulator
<edx>	hmm somehow the cvs is fucked up..
<edx>	like stuff wont compile anymore
<edx>	ok.. compile for recorder, right?
<jedix>	yeah
<edx>	    lcd_textscroll(0,0,0, "[BROWSE ~~~~browse browse window size]");
<edx>	uhm
<edx>	c:\Programming\CVS Checkout\RockBox\apps\tree.c(135): warning C4013: 'lcd_textscroll' undefined; assuming extern returning int
<edx>	ah.. its outside the simulator define
<jedix>	.. it is defined
<webmind>	question: does the archos mind if i have multiple partitions on it ?
<edx>	hmmm
<edx>	good question
<edx>	try!
<edx>	jedix.. got it to work finally
<edx>	it is some kind of strange:
<edx>	the lcd_putsxy function causes it to break the line if text gets longer than it would fit to the display
<edx>	do you experience the same?
<jedix>	yes
<edx>	ok
<jedix>	but it still scrolls
<edx>	yup.
<edx>	nice.
<jedix>	well, sorta
<jedix>	it doesn't work because it needs to be in a thread
<jedix>	what did you change to get it to work?
<edx>	yea.. anyways scrolling works
<edx>	hmmm
<edx>	you need your own puts function actually..
<edx>	that is without automatic linebreaks..
<edx>	or you cut off the string after a few chars so it needs no line break
<jedix>	could Iwrite it based on putsxy?
<edx>	.. yea certainly..
<jedix>	    /* We make the simulator truncate the string if it reaches the right edge,
<jedix>	       as otherwise it'll wrap. The real target doesn't wrap. *
<edx>	where is that from?
<jedix>	lcd.c
<edx>	.. found it
<edx>	strange..
<edx>	that's crap
<edx>	simulator doesnt wrap either
<jedix>	i don't know what that means
<edx>	hmm like the simulator cuts off the string (but it doesnt)
<edx>	i think thats for the player..
<edx>	ahh
<edx>	yea thats the player code
<edx>	theres another function for the recurder somewhere
<edx>	hmm i gotta go...
<edx>	later.
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<ironi>	hello
<ironi>	http://webon.prodat.no/wsp/aasentunet/webon.wsp?func=list&table=CONTENT&func_id=20020606&template=content
<ironi>	have you seent hat?
<ironi>	that
<jedix>	what is it?
<jedix>	oh yeah
<jedix>	that was /.ed
<ironi>	 /.ed?
<jedix>	slashdotted
<ironi>	oh ok
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*	Bagder appears
*	adiamas faints
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<Bagder>	morning Linus
<Linus>	morn
<Linus>	0x09000ade in ?? ()
<Linus>	(gdb)
<Linus>	NINJA!
<Bagder>	*rockers*
<Bagder>	so it was 11 something MHz?
<Linus>	yep
<Linus>	and i had to wire it correctly...strange :-)
*	Linus gets some coffee
---	Bagder is now known as Bagder|busy
<Linus>	My first finding when debugging the Recorder target code:
<Linus>	it is not very wise to try to load a BMP file from disk *before* the kernel and ATA is initialized
<webmind>	lol
<Linus>	The Recorder ATA is now WORKING!!!
---	Bagder|busy is now known as Bagder
<Bagder>	you rock hard Linus
<Linus>	i am a hard rocker, you know... :-)
<Bagder>	lots of long hair ;-)
<Linus>	:-)
<Linus>	what do we do about the logo?
<Bagder>	uh?
<Bagder>	what about it?
<Linus>	My first finding when debugging the Recorder target code:
<Linus>	it is not very wise to try to load a BMP file from disk *before* the kernel and ATA is initialized
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	well, either move that code or just comment it out
<Linus>	it will show pretty late if we show it after the ATA init
<Bagder>	we have the logo internally anyway
<Bagder>	the real one
<Linus>	so why does it load from disk
<Bagder>	in case you want a different one
<Linus>	IC
<Linus>	my lCD doesn't work
<Bagder>	not at all?
<Linus>	or rather, the rockbox code doesn't work
<Linus>	blank
<Bagder>	you didn't even get the ATA: -5 text before?
<Linus>	nope
<Bagder>	weird
<Linus>	sort of
<Bagder>	since the tetris has been proved working for some people
<Linus>	BTW the Recorder schematics is wrong regarding ATA address encoding
<Bagder>	it indicates differences
<Linus>	oh no.....
<adiamas>	if either of you has a binary of the recorder mod ill toss it on mine and see hat i get...
<adiamas>	i haven't built my cross compiler yet
<Bagder>	I don't think Linus has comitted code yet for me to build a working version
<Linus>	oh yes
<Linus>	just comment out the logo stuff
-->	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	hey all
<Bagder>	we should fix the "logo stuff" properly
<Bagder>	hey Z
<Bagder>	Linus did it again
<Zagor>	did what?
<Linus>	Zagor: are you alive?
<Linus>	i fixed the ATA bug
<Zagor>	oooh, nice!
<Zagor>	what was it?
<Linus>	i have debug-enabled my recorder
<Linus>	the schematics were wrong
<Linus>	the address decoder wasn't changed as the schematics showed
<Zagor>	aha
<Linus>	so the status register address was wrong
<Zagor>	coolio, so now we can browse dirs on the recorder?
<Linus>	that took 20 seconds to find out...
<Linus>	well no.
<Linus>	my LCD shows nothing
<Zagor>	??
<Zagor>	empty? no display at all?
<Linus>	no
<Zagor>	hmm, just like what I get with the tetris mod
<Zagor>	have you tried uncommenting the logo display?
*	Linus is debugging in 200MPH
<Bagder>	Zagor: he had to
<Linus>	Zagor: that one is a good one
<Linus>	it tries to load a BMP from disk before the ATA init
<Linus>	even before the kernel init
<Zagor>	duh!
<Linus>	:-)
<Linus>	FREEEEEEZE
<Bagder>	we need to move that
<Zagor>	yeah, obviously :)
<Zagor>	interestingly, elinenbe said he got Tetris running
<Bagder>	can we all say "LCD differences" together? ;-/
<adiamas>	Linus.. is your display jus shot.. or is it the code that won't work?
<Bagder>	the code
<Linus>	adiamas: the LCD works
<Zagor>	Bagder: yeah, but how come he survived the ATA cock-up?
<adiamas>	okay :)
<Linus>	maybe he tried it before the logo code added file-based logos?
<Bagder>	Zagor: didn't you comment out that stuff for the tetris mod?
<Zagor>	no
<Linus>	did he see a logo?
<Zagor>	i don't know
<Zagor>	we have to ask him
<Bagder>	well, we know people have see "ata: -4" and "ata: -5" 
<Bagder>	seen
<Zagor>	yes
<Linus>	the LCD code works
<Linus>	it's just that the contrast is wrong
<Zagor>	bwaha!
<Linus>	so the display is very hard to see
<Zagor>	gdb rocks
<Linus>	very much
<Zagor>	so when are you fixing mine? :)
*	Bagder cheers, the bug of the week is soon history
<Linus>	the ATA bug *is* history
<Bagder>	yah, but I was referring to my own bug of the week ;-)
<Linus>	ah, that one...
<Bagder>	been hunting it for many days
<Hadaka>	Ooo mama, soon it's rockbox time for my archos as well
<Bagder>	Linus: this calls for a grand posting to the list, you know that don't you? ;-)
<Zagor>	Linus: will you commit an lcd change, too? so I can rerelease tetris :)
<Bagder>	we must move the BMP loading
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	the question is, should we first display the rockbox logo and then replace it, or don't display anything until we have mounted the disk? the latter option means it'll take a while longer until anything appears
<Bagder>	use the internal
<Bagder>	imho
<Zagor>	yes, i'm leaning towards that too
<Bagder>	btw, I modified the auto-page to use UTC times and it is ready to get included on the site
<Zagor>	ah, will fix
<Linus>	I'm curious about the LCD contrast setting in the init
<Linus>	it gets totally dark on my LCD
<Linus>	but obviously hasn't on other LCD's
<Linus>	and if we follow the Solomon data sheets, the contrast setting is an iterative process
<Zagor>	totally dark? i get totally blank
<Linus>	we have to repeat the command until the status register says that the command is done
<Linus>	and we don't even have a status read function
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	so this works by pure coincidence for some ppl then
<Linus>	I changed the setting from 0x30 to 0x20 (which is the power on default)
<Linus>	then ir looked ok
<Linus>	the dir browser pops up, but the buttons don't work
<Linus>	did anyone actually play tetris on it?
-->	alkorr (alkorr@srs07v-8-64.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
<Linus>	alan!
<alkorr>	hi
<Linus>	the ATA works on the recorder now
<Bagder>	Linus: yes, elenbee said he played
<Zagor>	Linus: elinenbe said he did
<alkorr>	it's weird
<Linus>	weird?
<Zagor>	he even complained about the lack of key repeat
<alkorr>	i see you you change 620020306 in 6200206
<Linus>	yes
<Linus>	the schematics seem to be wrong
<Zagor>	brb
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<alkorr>	now it seems ATA works, anything working on Recorder ?
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<Bagder>	I wanna know that too ;-)
<Zagor>	buh. that's what I get for using windows machines :(
<Bagder>	Linus: can you browse dirs and stuff on the recorder now?
<Linus>	no. the buttons don't work
<Bagder>	!
<Zagor>	i wonder what recorder model elinenbe is using
<Bagder>	yeah
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
<alkorr>	see you
<Bagder>	see ya lan
<Bagder>	alan
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<Linus>	has anyone changed the debounce algorithm lately?
*	Bagder hasn't
<Bagder>	check with cvs ;-)
<Linus>	it polls every 10th tick, that is every 100ms
<Linus>	then it requires that the button is pressed at least 200 polls
<Linus>	that is 20 seconds!!!
<Linus>	haw lame!
<Zagor|lunch>	uh, no linus. it requires 3 polls.
---	Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	oh, ah the recorder has special. sorry.
<Zagor>	that's left-over debounce that should just be removed
-->	zeffert (swolen@CPE-61-9-136-136.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #rockbox
<zeffert>	you are all disgusting child molesters
<Bagder>	we are?
<zeffert>	ya
<Zagor>	oh no! *worried look*
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
<zeffert>	i wish you were dead!
<Zagor>	bye
<zeffert>	burn!!!!!!
<Bagder>	we are
<zeffert>	burn!!!!!!!!!!
---	Bagder sets ban on *!*@*.vic.bigpond.net.au
<--	Bagder has kicked zeffert from #rockbox (Bagder)
<Zagor>	that was fun!
<Bagder>	ban number 2
<Zagor>	really? i missed the first
<Bagder>	getting busy ;-)
<Bagder>	you did?
<Bagder>	fun fellow you didn't stop talking spanish in all caps ;-)
<Zagor>	haha
<Bagder>	s/you/who
---	Bagder gives channel operator status to Zagor
---	Bagder gives channel operator status to Linus
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<alkorr>	re !
<alkorr>	woauh three masters now ! :)
---	Bagder gives channel operator status to alkorr
<Bagder>	:-)
<alkorr>	arf I'm the first displayed :)===)
*	Bagder goes to fetch coffee
<Bagder>	damnit, no one breaks the builds anymore ;-)
<Zagor>	i'm working on it, just give me a minute or two
<Zagor>	:)
<Bagder>	good! :-P
<Zagor>	build status is now included in the daily build page
<Zagor>	maybe we should make it narrower somehow. shorter column titles, perhaps
<Bagder>	any suggestions how?
<Bagder>	uh, the showlog.cgi doesn't exist ;-)
<Zagor>	oh, missed that one
<Zagor>	now
<Bagder>	goodie
<Bagder>	spell out that the date/time is UTC/GMT time
<Zagor>	well, which is it? ;)
<Bagder>	UTC is the name formerly known as GMT 
<Zagor>	really? I thought they differed in DST handling
<Bagder>	but I guess most people know GMT better
<Bagder>	I don't think so
<Bagder>	btw, how come the order of the daily builds is so strange?
<Zagor>	oh, I need to sort them
<Bagder>	ah, hehe
<Bagder>	is that "my" index.html that shows up?
<Zagor>	yup
<Bagder>	goodie, so I can work on fixing the titles like that
<Zagor>	i'm doing a symbolic link, since SSI can't handle absolute paths or hostnames
<Bagder>	ok
<Linus>	Finally, lunchtime!
<Bagder>	late lunch today
<Linus>	indeed. long meetings
<Zagor>	hehe, linus is trapped in Meeting Hell
<Bagder>	poor guy
<Linus>	Zagor: if you only knew what we were discussing... :-)
<Zagor>	I have a nice poster here: "Don't Like Working? Prefer Talking About It Instead of Doing It? Schedule A Meeting!"
<Zagor>	"The Easy Alternative To Work"
<Linus>	Well, time for lunch!
---	Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
<Bagder>	narrower look 
<Bagder>	more cryptic titles
<Zagor>	yeah, i'll have to add some description
<Zagor>	how about Play, P-old, Rec along with Norm, Debg, Sim
<Linus|lunch>	The button debouncing code requires that the button is pressed for 20 seconds!!! :-)
<Zagor>	Linus|lunch: i just fixed it
<Linus|lunch>	good
<Zagor>	i.e. removed it
<Bagder>	I'll try that
<Bagder>	wider but makes more sensre
<alkorr>	MAS for recorder is still missing ?
<Bagder>	yes
<Zagor>	yes, linus is on the case I believe
<Linus|lunch>	i'm on it
<Bagder>	Linus is the MAS king
*	Bagder bows
<Linus|lunch>	yes, yes, yes. I *am* going to lunch
<Linus|lunch>	i'm waiting for the printer (MAS data sheet)
<Zagor>	go, already!
<Bagder>	now go so we can speak about you ;-)
<alkorr>	hehe
<Zagor>	Bagder: hmm, why are the columns so wide? i can't see why they are any wider than the text they contain.
<Zagor>	"play norm" for instance, is much wider than the title
<Bagder>	I don't know
<Zagor>	try adding "cellpadding=0" to the table tag
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	that's it
<Bagder>	no
<Zagor>	ah, try adding <br> to the titles, to force line breaks. i think that's the thing
<Hadaka>	ew, how about using css and xhtml strict instead of all that?
<Bagder>	wow
<Bagder>	tiny boxes now
<Bagder>	Hadaka: in what way would that help us here and now?
<Zagor>	Hadaka: yeah but some things (like this) are implementation defined
<Hadaka>	well all those cellpadding=0 and br stuff usually can be handled a lot better by clean page design and the stylesheets
<Zagor>	Bagder: keep th for headers, IMO
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	how many lines should I have maximum in the table? 20 fine?
<Zagor>	Hadaka: look at the page. it *is* clean. the fact that browsers maximise cell width even when they wrapped the contents is not defined in CSS nor XHTML
<alkorr>	which page, Zagor ?
<Zagor>	alkorr: the daily builds page
<Bagder>	at the bottom
<alkorr>	oh well all seems to be okay :)
<Zagor>	Bagder: you should be able to kill the cellpadding now, it shouldn't matter much
<Bagder>	in a second
<Zagor>	Hadaka: sorry to sound harsh. I do agree with you in general. :)
<Hadaka>	err, why not just have a stylesheet for the table - and say that the widht of the cell is say about 3em and height is about 1em - then they are all the same width and it's correct for the font
<alkorr>	maybe you could enlarge twice your table, Zagor ?
<Zagor>	Hadaka: because the content will not always be "OK", so then it will break. we want the dynamics too.
<Zagor>	Hadaka: or am I misunderstanding something?
<Hadaka>	why do you want the sizes of the cells changing? I'd guess it would be easier to read if all the widths were the same?
<Zagor>	Bagder: fix us an error, so we can see how that looks
<Bagder>	uh
<Bagder>	that's not that easy to fake in
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	commit a bad file now
<Bagder>	it'll go break in... 7 minutes
<alkorr>	well if you enlarge the width of the table, you can use larger titles, you can or there is reason no to do so ?
<Zagor>	what are you printing, in that case? "Failure" or something else
<Bagder>	Zagor: yes
<alkorr>	FAILED
<Hadaka>	FAIL is what I usually see
<alkorr>	or KO :)
<Bagder>	"Failed" is the word I use
<alkorr>	in red flash
<Bagder>	atm
<Zagor>	alkorr: oooo, no thanks :)
<Zagor>	well i think it's ok now
<Hadaka>	Well I still don't see why the widths have to be dynamic - is it just me that would like to see an aligned and constant width table, instead of varying width for columns
<Zagor>	Is fixed width worth the cost of breaking the table when/if we add a new column or rename a title?
<Hadaka>	um, I don't get that - if the width of each column is like 5em, what's there to break?
<Bagder>	what is 'em' ?
<Hadaka>	in this case the standard width for a character in the current font and font size
<Zagor>	it breaks when we change columns to include "win32sim" and "x11sim", doesn't it?
<Hadaka>	well if the titles are too wide, then ofcourse the width of that column will expand
<Zagor>	so then we are back to dynamic sizing, gaining exactly... what? :)
<Hadaka>	no, we are back to dynamic sizing only if we get too wide titles - which is a problem in itself already - so then we either increase the width of columns to 6em (which should have been in the first case then) - or we just let it wrap the title some more
<Zagor>	ok, so it will work. I guess I just don't see the big advantage.
<Hadaka>	yeah well it doesn't really matter - and especially not worth it if you don't do all the pages that way
<Zagor>	well all the pages use CSS already
<alkorr>	color changes when "failed" ?
<Zagor>	yes, to red
<Hadaka>	well why do you have bgcolors in there if you use CSS?
<Zagor>	for those who don't support CSS
<Bagder>	should I set a class or something there?
<Zagor>	Bagder: you could, then we would be free to play with the look. <table class=buildstatus> for instance
<Hadaka>	yeah
<Bagder>	yes, and "buildok" and "buildfail" for the "boxes" ?
<Hadaka>	then you can do .buildstatus td { width: 4em; } for example
<Zagor>	Bagder: yup
<Bagder>	ok, coming up
<alkorr>	see you later
<--	alkorr has quit ()
<Bagder>	should I remove the bgcolor then?
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	Hadaka: sorry, I thought you meant bgcolor for the page...
<Bagder>	there
<Bagder>	you need to make buildok green to make it look similar again
<Zagor>	fixing...
<Bagder>	I set a limit of 20 lines now
<Zagor>	there
<Zagor>	ok, i surrender. width is now 3em :)
<Hadaka>	:)
<Hadaka>	looks nice
<Bagder>	haha
<Bagder>	in fact it looks better
<Zagor>	traitor! ;)
*	Bagder gives Hadaka a pat on the shoulder
<Hadaka>	it should really be the decision of the user... but I would remove the underlining from the links in that build box
<Zagor>	nah, i don't like "invisible" links
<Hadaka>	nods
<Zagor>	Hadaka: can I set a background color that is something like "X percent lighter than the current background"?
<Hadaka>	not easily no
<Zagor>	without using absolute values, that is
<Zagor>	ok
<Hadaka>	you can put a semi-transparent png there though ;)
<Zagor>	ouch :)
<Bagder>	can that be done with the css?
<Hadaka>	yeah :)
<Hadaka>	nods
<Bagder>	woo
<Hadaka>	everything can have a background picture - and a transparent one at that
<Hadaka>	even pieces of text
<Bagder>	ok
*	Bagder is a css cluebie
---	Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
<Linus>	the button polling is awfully non-responsive
<Zagor>	Linus: as in "does not work"?
<Hadaka>	well if you have mozilla, check out http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/
<Linus>	as in misses keypresses pretty often
<Zagor>	Linus: in normal use, or when you try to make it miss? ;)
<Bagder>	hehe, fun page
<Linus>	when i repeatedly predd DOWN to move the cursor in the dir browser
<Linus>	press
<Linus>	I'll shorten the poll interval to see if it helps
<Zagor>	remember to adjust the repeat values too
<Linus>	ok
<Zagor>	they should probably be calculated from the poll value
<Linus>	roger that
<Hadaka>	then select Edit -> Use style -> default page style or something
<Hadaka>	and see the difference
<Bagder>	that rocks
*	Zagor switches to Mozilla when somebody tells him how to map the keys like Opera has'em
*	Hadaka switches to Opera when opera renders stylesheets as well as Mozilla :)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	Zagor: could we have the target mod-builds in a table with three column?
<Bagder>	might shorten the page a bit
<Zagor>	Bagder: sure
<Linus>	I would like a warning count for every build
<Bagder>	you mean visible in the table?
<Hadaka>	Bagder: did you notice from that CSS page btw, that when you scroll down, the semi-transparent box stays put?
<Bagder>	yeah
<Linus>	meybe color-coded in the table, and highlighted in the log
<Linus>	a red OK means "ok with warnings", or something
<Bagder>	the log hilight I've thought about adding, adding it to the table takes a little tweak
<Linus>	The LCD flickers a lot when scrolling the dir browser
<Bagder>	we could have the "OK" text replaced with a number of warnings, would that make sense?
<Linus>	and OK when 0 0warnings
<Bagder>	ah, good
<Hadaka>	well in any case it would need a legend telling what things mean
<Bagder>	true
<Hadaka>	but that's already way nice :)
<Linus>	faster button polling helped a lot for the responsiveness
<Linus>	but we need to optimize display updates
<Bagder>	its still pretty cool that it works this good without ever have been run on target before
<Linus>	yeah!
<Bagder>	one point to the simulator ;-)
<Linus>	yup
<Hadaka>	I can usually get button presses that are two or three sixtieths of a second - and down to one sixtieth if I try hard enough
<Linus>	it is fairly good at 20Hz today
<Linus>	but not perfect
<Zagor>	well 30Hz shouldn't be that much load anyway, right?
<Linus>	no
<Hadaka>	is performance a problem on that thing? what things take a lot of time?
<Linus>	it is polling
<Linus>	in an interrupt
<Zagor>	flipping the bits on the MP3 data is the most cpu intesive thing we are today today, I'd say
<Zagor>	but we won't have to do that on the recorder, I hope
<Linus>	probably not
<Bagder>	now watch the table
<Linus>	the button_tick IRQ didn't count the ticks properly
<Zagor>	Bagder: warning count?
<Linus>	a POLL_FREQUENCY of 2 made it poll ever 3 ticks
<Bagder>	yah
<Bagder>	0 => OK
<Bagder>	Zagor: is the cgi a symlink to my one too?
<Zagor>	yep
<Hadaka>	nice :)
<Bagder>	ok, highlight of warnings coming up
<Bagder>	many warnings ;-)
<Bagder>	hm, do we wanna use css and stuff for the showlog.cgi too?
<Zagor>	nah, that's just unformatted text
<Bagder>	it won't be
<Zagor>	:)
<Bagder>	I'll do it html now
<Zagor>	if you make it html, then we should use css
<Bagder>	so tell me what kind of <head> to include to make it work nicely
<Zagor>	look at any other page
<Zagor>	they all have it
<Bagder>	ok
<Bagder>	check it out now
<Bagder>	press a link
<Bagder>	the warnings have "clasee=gccwarn"
<Zagor>	ooh, background :)
<Bagder>	class 
<Zagor>	ok, making them red
<Bagder>	shall I have a class for the regular lines too?
<Zagor>	not unless you thing we should do something special with them
<Bagder>	nah, it would just make it possible for you to make compiler output to look different than regular text
<Bagder>	removed the long prefix from all paths in the output
<Hadaka>	you could put all the output inside a div in any case, so padding doesn't have to be put for the body element in general
<Bagder>	you mean just <div> all-output </div> ?
<Hadaka>	yup
<Hadaka>	and then closing the body and html :)
<Bagder>	oh
<Hadaka>	oh and maybe put a class for the div
<Hadaka>	so then we can say .compileroutput { padding: 10px; } or something
<Zagor>	<br class=fubar> doesn't seem to work. at least nothing much happens
<Bagder>	suggestion?
<Zagor>	i don
<Bagder>	<div> on those lines?
<Zagor>	't know. Hadaka, shouldn't this work?
<Linus>	Zagor: the ' key is awfully close to ENTER, don't you think?
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	thick fingers
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	hehe, yes. plus this damn keyboard has a lot of silly extra keys on it. some windows blahblah
<Linus>	oh, here he goes again...
<Linus>	those keys are far from the ' key
<Zagor>	gotta go, guys. too sunny for me to hack more today :)
<Zagor>	yeah yeah, call me a wuss :)
<Linus>	that's ridiculous
<Bagder>	Zagor: <div> is in place
<Linus>	"laddar batterierna"
<Zagor>	hehe, not quite there yet
<Zagor>	working on it ;)
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<Bagder>	now why do I get an extra newline?
<Hadaka>	I can check that soon
<Bagder>	we should be working a bit on removing the warnings
<Linus>	yeah
<Hadaka>	hm, should gcc-output be in <pre>?
<Bagder>	there's a point in not doing that
<Bagder>	and that is that it wraps nicer
<Hadaka>	in any case - br should be between lines - not at the start, nor at the end
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<jedix>	hey guys
<Linus>	yo
<jedix>	how stuff?
<Linus>	well, we have the recorder ATA working
<jedix>	   ^--is
<jedix>	thats sweet
<Linus>	i'm browsing files as we speak
<jedix>	nice
<Linus>	i am debugging my recorder with GDB
<jedix>	GDB?
<Linus>	over the serial port
<Linus>	Gnu Debugger
<Hadaka>	Woohoo
<Hadaka>	you guys are amazing
<jedix>	do you know how the device handles threads?
<Linus>	i assube that you mean the original archos firmware
<Linus>	assume
<Linus>	no, i don't think they have threads at all
<jedix>	..yours doesn't?
<Linus>	we have threads
<Linus>	light-weight ones
<Linus>	the scheduler is somewhat primitive, with non-preemptive switching
<jedix>	well, I was trying to get the scrool working.. but right now its in a while(true) loop and I was thinking the best way to handle it would be to make a thread so you can tell it to sleep and such.
<Hadaka>	could we do preemptive with that hardware?
<Linus>	Hadaka: yes. it's a software issue
<Hadaka>	erm, but it's not a software issue if you can't get any interrupts in where to switch the stuff?
<Hadaka>	but I'll just take yes as an answer, since I don't know enuff myself :) thanks
<Linus>	if we didn't have interrupts, we wouldn't need to make it preemptive, true
<Linus>	we have a number of interrupt sources, the serial port, the DMA, the timers...
<Hadaka>	the timers interest me - what do you get from those?
<Linus>	there are a few hardware 16-bit timers that can give compare interrupts
<Linus>	and a very extensive capture functionality
<Hadaka>	mmh, nice
<Hadaka>	on the showlog stuff, you could put some regular padding for the whole body - and then a bit more padding on the div that has the gcc-output - I'd suppose it'd look nice then
<jedix>	damnit
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<Linus>	who made chartables.c?
<jedix>	Linus: does the simulator do threads?
<Linus>	no, i don't think so
<jedix>	so, I guess my work is useless
<Tumm>	För jag har tagit studenteeen, fy fan vad jag är bäst!
<Tumm>	oh sorry
<Tumm>	"Cause i've graduated, I'm so goddamn best"
<Bagder>	Linus: Gary made the chartables
<Bagder>	Hadaka: on the showlog stuff, how do you mean the div should be modified?
<Hadaka>	Bagder: well the div has nothing wrong in it - the first line should not have a br before it though - but the stylesheet should be modified to include padding
<Hadaka>	and the body should have margins - specified both in the stylesheet and on the actual element on the page
<Linus>	Bagder: do you know where they come from. Those array declarations are from hell!
<Bagder>	Linus: I know, Gary brought them, no one changed them
<Linus>	why declare a 1 byte array???
<jedix>	do you guys want the code I put into lcd.c? its not operational, but it could be made so with little effort by someone that knows how the threads run or have a better overview of the project
<Linus>	i know, i know... the font code needs all fonts to be alike...
<Linus>	now we're down to 16 warnings :-)
<Bagder>	I just changed it to build every 20 minute ;-)
<Linus>	jedix: where is it now?
<Bagder>	nice, the extra newline disappeared from the output
<jedix>	Linus: on my hd
<jedix>	do you want it?
<Linus>	yeah. can you mail it? linus@haxx.se
<jedix>	sure
<jedix>	its off
<Bagder>	one by one they go those warnings
<Linus>	kill'em all!!!!!!!
<Bagder>	those ones in chartable are annoying
<Linus>	indeed. i don't want to change them without changing the generator script
<Linus>	i want the source fonts!
<Bagder>	yeah, me too
<Bagder>	it would also make it easier to make the rest of the iso8859-1 chars
<Bagder>	did you find out what the .ejz file is?
<Linus>	no
<Linus>	and it didn't happen again...
<Bagder>	wow
<Linus>	bah
<jedix>	Linus: did you get it?
<Linus>	yup
<Linus>	i'll look into it ASAP
<jedix>	cool, just making sure you got it
<jedix>	anything else I can do?
<Bagder>	I changed the warnings counter to be more accurate
<Bagder>	lowered the amounts
<Linus>	?
<Bagder>	I only count number of lines with warnings now
<Bagder>	so multiple warnings on the same line is only one
<Linus>	that's cheating
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	the description is often multiple line
<Bagder>	check the threads.c:41 warning
<Bagder>	jedix: it is pretty much up to you I guess
<Linus>	But check the mpeg.c:278 warning
<Linus>	that's two different ones
<Bagder>	yes, but the second is just an effect of the first
<Linus>	but can you be sure
<Bagder>	so I think this is closer to reality
<Bagder>	I know
<jedix>	Bagder: I don;t really have a well enough overview of the project to decide what needs to be done, and can be..
<Linus>	Bagder: grep -v "(near"
<Bagder>	well, maybe that's what you can help with! get a grip and present it to the people
<Bagder>	Linus: good point
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<Linus>	jedix: and while you're trying to get a grip, point out what's badly documented
<Linus>	hi elinenbe
<jedix>	k
<elinenbe>	hey there
<elinenbe>	anyone want to write my database crash recovery routine?
<Bagder>	me me me!
<Bagder>	:-)
*	Bagder can't even spell databsae
<elinenbe>	well, it needs to be able to recover from a crash, and recover if it crashes while it is recovering :)
<Bagder>	sounds very fun.... not .-)
<Bagder>	Linus: now then, recalculated again ;-)
<Linus>	I just just killed the open() warning
<Bagder>	the big question is, will we reach "OK" ?
<Linus>	Bagder: how to auto-eval in emacs?
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<Linus>	hi jas_williams
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<Bagder>	auto-eval ?
<Linus>	bye jas_williams
<Linus>	you know, those emacs comments in the bottom of some files
<Bagder>	ah, right
<Bagder>	(setq enable-local-eval t)
<Bagder>	hey, those 2 final ones should be possible to kill too
<Linus>	what os that 'type' parameter supposed to do?
<Linus>	is
<Bagder>	I don't know, I thought it should be an index
<Linus>	is the settings code used yet?
<Bagder>	I don't think so
<Linus>	oh. i looked in it. i guess it's not used. :-)
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	you should mail the list about you getting the ATA and gdb on recorder working
<Linus>	ok
<Bagder>	it is just so cool
<Bagder>	hey
<Bagder>	I should make a link to the CVS from the file name in the compiler output
<Bagder>	at least for the warnings
<Bagder>	hm, or can really?
<Bagder>	can I
*	Bagder decides it is a bit too tricky
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<Linus>	Has anyone tried the playlists yet?
<Bagder>	not to my knowledge
<Linus>	How does it work? Load a M3U file?
<Bagder>	I'll work on them some more soonish
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	make a .m3u file
<Bagder>	browse there, play it
<Linus>	how does such a file look like?
<Bagder>	plain file names
<Bagder>	use full path names
<Linus>	ok. i'll try it...
<Bagder>	LF or CRLF separated
<Bagder>	currently it does no shuffle or anything but plays from track 0 and onwards
<Linus>	ok
<Bagder>	at least that's the intension ;-)
<Bagder>	gotta go
<Bagder>	see ya
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<Linus>	gotta go now. cu guys!
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<elinenbe>	hey there!
<elinenbe>	I still think rockbox should be called...
<elinenbe>	"Supa' Pang!"
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<datazone>	why not "Frink Cheep Cheep"
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<huz>	hello
<huz>	since i've put rockbox i can't connect my archo to my pc
<huz>	someone have had this problem ? 
<huz>	ok,i haven't time yet, but i'll come back, because how we say in france : 
<huz>	je suis dans la merde ! 
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<huz>	re
<huz>	i'm under windows now, and the problem is the same
<huz>	please i _really_ need help
<huz>	youuuhouuu i think i've a big problem ! can you give me a way to resolv it please youhou 
<huz>	\0/ _0_ \0/ _0_ \0/ _0_ \0/ _0_
<huz>	ok i've found ! we must start archos connected to pc now ... maybe a note in the documentation will be great, don't you think ? 
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<ironi>	aloha
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<g003y2>	anyone compiling the 1.0 firmware with cygwin/win2k?
<ironi>	i was about to, but i guess i needed a good tutorial
<ironi>	(saying that the one on the page is confusing"
<g003y2>	well I think I'm close now
<ironi>	qand needs to be updated
<ironi>	well
*	ironi is gone, zzz [l/on p/on]
<g003y2>	I got everything compiled fine, but it seems like I'm missing something on my include path 
<ironi>	k
<ironi>	and you got it from the tutorial?
<g003y2>	yeah
<g003y2>	I followed it exactly except I don't have a "linus" home dir :D
<g003y2>	I got the tools for sh1 compiles in place.
<g003y2>	it is now just a matter of getting the whole process to recognize /usr/include for the standard c libs
<ironi>	i see
<ironi>	wel i think a new package could be nice
<g003y2>	I know i'm just being dense about it :D
<ironi>	weher eyou can just unpack the latest source and unpack it to a certain folder and tun a batch file to complie the wqhole thing
<g003y2>	yeah a batch file for the GNU-SH tool kit would've been nice.
<ironi>	well of i go
<g003y2>	alright cya
<ironi>	'nite
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<adam>	hey
<adam>	http://remix.kwed.org/ == cool
<adam>	oh well
<adam>	beer > my conciousness
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