**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May  2 23:05:32 2002

-->	adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-96.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
---	Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
<miah>	dah
<adiamas>	mah
-->	[TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
---	[TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
<--	[TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
<adiamas>	hmmm
<miah>	hrm?
<adiamas>	nothing.. just makeing updates to the uisim...
<adiamas>	tetris now plays a bit nice with ppl...
<adiamas>	and the menuing of the sim works properly./
<miah>	nice
<--	edx|sleeping has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<miah>	i've been following the project for a couple months now.. looks like things are getting there
<miah>	i can't wait
<adiamas>	are you on a win machine or a *nix?
<miah>	unix
<miah>	and windows
<adiamas>	then you should pull down the sorce and play with the sim a bit :)
<miah>	my unix boxes all lack X
<adiamas>	ahhh.. 
<miah>	yea, i havnt had much time to play with stuff lately
<adiamas>	that could be a prob...
<miah>	im working on a linux distro
<adiamas>	nice... what pulled you into that?
<miah>	well, i worked at turbolinux for a while
<miah>	and then at penguin computing..
<miah>	doing security / sys admin stuff.. been doing alot of sysadmin / security stuff basically
<PsycoXul>	ok the cursor for the menu's
<miah>	and got sick of installing and then configuring things to the way i liked them
<PsycoXul>	it gets put back on tetris when i go to browse or rockabox
<PsycoXul>	but its still actualy on browse or rockabox
<miah>	so i started building my own stuff, so it would save me time..
<PsycoXul>	and neither of them are doing anything for me
<PsycoXul>	heh
<miah>	but i've been working on it for about a year now
<adiamas>	hmm... let me look
<adiamas>	hehe i know what it is.. one sec
-->	calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
<adiamas>	okay.. which makes more sense...
<adiamas>	you choose a menu..
<adiamas>	enter it
<adiamas>	when you come back out
<adiamas>	should the cursor be at the top again, or where you left off?
<adiamas>	im mixed on it
<PsycoXul>	i say where you left off
<miah>	where you left off..
<adiamas>	cool.
<PsycoXul>	and whichever it is, it should be consistent
<adiamas>	well.. i sense a series of funcitons coming for menuing
<PsycoXul>	the current firmware for the player does both in various places of the menu and its annoying heh
<adiamas>	okay.. fixed
<adiamas>	pull it down and try it
<PsycoXul>	actualy its really screwy cause sometimes it goes to the top, sometimes it goes to where it was, and sometimes it goes to a different place in the menu 1 level up... heh [the archos player firmware, that is]
*	adiamas nods
<adiamas>	im going to be thinking about it over the weekend.. it irks me too
*	adiamas takes a bit to switch gears from c++ mode to c mode
<adiamas>	i miss classes _so_ much in a case like this :)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	ok so yeah thats better
*	adiamas nods
<adiamas>	now i just want to slow down tetris,
<adiamas>	fix scoring
<PsycoXul>	browse and rockabox still don't do anything, and if you press left after pressing right on rockabox the items all go blank and you're left with just a cursor
<adiamas>	well.. the browse
<adiamas>	you need to add a 'archos' directory to your files
<adiamas>	that is being used to represent the '/' on the player
<PsycoXul>	where?
<PsycoXul>	ah got it
<PsycoXul>	nice
<adiamas>	in the x11 dir or win dir you are using
<adiamas>	now.. lets see if i can replicate your other issue
<adiamas>	yeah.. roxabox is more of a place holder...
<adiamas>	just something for the screen.. ill remove it.
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	so how much of this works target?
<adiamas>	come again?
<PsycoXul>	er
<PsycoXul>	how much of this works on target?
<PsycoXul>	you know actualy runs on the units
<adiamas>	hmm i can't replicate your blanking when you go left after going right.
<adiamas>	none yet
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	none?
<adiamas>	the simulator just lets us higher level coders start using the api we are developing
<PsycoXul>	the lcd/button stuff should work no?
<adiamas>	well.. some barebones stuff has been worked on..
<adiamas>	but no apps and such...
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	tetris and the screensaver should be able to run on it i would think
<adiamas>	im not about to toss this stuff onto my unit yet ;)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<adiamas>	okay.. newest version up.. try it now
<adiamas>	PsycoXul are you working on windows or lin?
<PsycoXul>	linux
<adiamas>	k...
<adiamas>	im waiting on one of the windows guys.. make sure this stuff works for them...
<adiamas>	i dont think they would have a prob.. but you never know
<PsycoXul>	so what i was really asking is how much of the api's used in the sim's little app/tetris/screensaver/browse are implemented for the target
<adiamas>	everything that runs on/in the sim is using our api... so as far as i know.. most/all
<adiamas>	though... you'd need to confirm that with Zagor and Bagder and edx
<adiamas>	they tend to be involved with more of the on metal stuff
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	ok it looks that the file/directory stuff is still unimplemented 
<adiamas>	thats part of what they are working on :)
-->	Bagder2 (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<adiamas>	hey Bagder2
<Bagder2>	morning
<Bagder2>	:-)
*	Bagder2 tries to figure out why there's a Bagder still present
<adiamas>	there isn't on my list
<Bagder2>	no, but if you /whois bagder, there is one
<adiamas>	hmm.. odd
<adiamas>	PsycoXul wanna do me a favor?
<--	calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<Bagder2>	adiamas: we should rework the menu in app.c to support being longer than can be shown on screen
<Bagder2>	imho
*	adiamas nods
<adiamas>	thats what im working on now ;)
<adiamas>	but i also want to do a 'menu.c/h'
*	Bagder2 bows in front of adiamas
<adiamas>	so makes it easier for sub menus
<Bagder2>	goodie
<Bagder2>	I'll try to attack the dir browser more this weekend
<adiamas>	sweet
<adiamas>	oh.. btw.. off now turns off the sim on the main menu
<Bagder2>	ok, seems reasonable
<adiamas>	i thought so ;)
<adiamas>	anyone mind if i remove the KEY PRESSED: output on stdout?
<Bagder2>	no
<Bagder2>	you can remove the lcd_update() crap too
<adiamas>	k..
<Bagder2>	we'll put it back the day we need to debug those things
<Bagder2>	no need to have them there all the time
<adiamas>	k.. then ill just comment them out
<adiamas>	where in the hell is that beep coming from!
<miah>	
<miah>	=)
<adiamas>	no ..
<adiamas>	ive got that turned off ;)
<adiamas>	i mean from the sim
<Bagder2>	yeah I kinda hate that beep too
<adiamas>	dude.. i don't know who just put in that last feature request, but they are sick :)
*	Bagder2 agrees
<adiamas>	when i do a cvs update
<adiamas>	and i get an 'M' before a file...
<adiamas>	whats that mean?
<Bagder2>	Merge
<Bagder2>	you have local changes
<adiamas>	nods
-->	calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Bagder2>	morning Zagor
<Zagor>	ello
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder2>	morning Linus
<Linus>	Morning Bagder2
<Bagder2>	Linus / Zagor you plan to go to the Appeal party tonight?
<Zagor>	yep
<Bagder2>	me too
<PsycoXul>	adiamas: what kind of favor?\
<adiamas>	nevermind :)
<PsycoXul>	ok sorry
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Linus>	I am  not going
<calpefrosch>	morning..(#)
<calpefrosch>	for the simulator, which files do I have to create ?
<adiamas>	what do you mean?
<calpefrosch>	I created a \playlists\1.m3u, but I get a strange output
<calpefrosch>	like: filename:     Pý°
<calpefrosch>	load_playlist( £C )
<adiamas>	dunno...
<Bagder2>	what do you do to get that output?
<calpefrosch>	compiled the simulator with VC++ and started it... 
<Bagder2>	oh
<calpefrosch>	Oh, I had to define the DEBUGF for VC++
<calpefrosch>	-> #define DEBUGF debugf in debug.h
<Bagder2>	I don't know why edx has involved the playlist stuff in the simulator at this point
<calpefrosch>	ahh, you mean it is not ready to test...
<Bagder2>	well, there shouldn't be any code calling any playlist functions
<Bagder2>	since the app.c has no code to do that
<calpefrosch>	he is calling the harness.c
<Bagder2>	... and that is badness
<calpefrosch>	hmm
<Bagder2>	the harness.c is the test code for the playlist, it isn't meant to run in a simulator
<calpefrosch>	hehe, now it's working :-)
*	adiamas nods
<adiamas>	okay... i think im done for the evening...
<adiamas>	sleepy time...
<Bagder2>	night adiamas
<adiamas>	and at the request of you europeans.. i am not going 'nappy' ;)
<Bagder2>	haha
<adiamas>	im bedding
<calpefrosch>	good night
---	You are now known as adi|asleep
<--	calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C7A8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #rockbox
---	Bagder2 is now known as Bagder
---	Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
-->	Nm`jaK^j (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Nm`jaK^j is now known as Bagder3
---	Bagder3 is now known as Bagder44
<Bagder44>	grrr
<Zagor>	what's happening?
<Bagder44>	my muh disconnected and had problems to reconnect
<Bagder44>	the Bagder is a true irc ghost
<Bagder44>	it looks like an ircd bug
---	Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
<Zagor>	fun..
<Zagor>	weee, now I can read partitioned disks too...
<Bagder44>	coolers
<--	Bagder has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<Zagor>	lookie :)
---	Bagder44 is now known as Bagder
<Bagder>	that took a while
<Linus>	Gentlemen! WE HAVE SOUND!!!!!!!!!
<Zagor>	goooooogogowooo
*	Zagor is droooooling
*	Linus is screaming with joy!
<Zagor>	everybody else is sleeping ;)
<Linus>	typical...
<PsycoXul>	sound?
<Linus>	I have managed to play MP3 data with the MAS!
<PsycoXul>	woo
<Linus>	Kicking!
<Linus>	A historical moment. The first group to have their song played in the Rockbox is Machinae Supremacy.
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Linus>	They shoule be proud
<Zagor>	rather fitting, I'd say :)
<Linus>	or rather 4 seconds of the beginning of the song, but what the heck... :-)
<Zagor>	this is the track, btw: http://www.machinaesupremacy.com/machinae_supremacy_-_arcade.mp3
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	Zagor: you tried the ATA/FAT32 on target yet?
<Zagor>	no, not yet. tomorrow...
<Linus>	We have a silly problem with the serial connection to thw MAS.
<Zagor>	more "annoyance" than problem
<Zagor>	yet very annoying :)
<Linus>	The serial interface in the SH1 sends the data LSB first, but the MAS wants it MSB first.
<Linus>	We have to swap bit order of EVERY byte we read from the hard drive!!!
<Linus>	AAAAAAH!
-->	elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
<Linus>	Welcome!
<Linus>	I have good news!
<elinenbe>	congradulations!!!!!!!!!
<elinenbe>	woooo hooo!!!!
<Linus>	You heard!
<elinenbe>	yes!!!
<Linus>	Thx
<elinenbe>	that is awesome!
<Linus>	Indeed!
<Bagder>	so every byte must be reversed bitwise?
<elinenbe>	but why that song? :(  Something like Krudser & Dorfmeister would have been more appropriate :)
<Zagor>	haha
<Linus>	Who are they?
<Linus>	Bagder: Yes, every byte
<Bagder>	nono this should've played:
<Zagor>	we didn't select very conciously, but I think it's rather appropriate actually
<Bagder>	Run level zero - strapped to machinery.mp3
<Bagder>	:-)
<Linus>	or "Living in a Box"
<Bagder>	Linus: time for inlined assembler? B-]
<Bagder>	call Alan!
*	Bagder giggles
<elinenbe>	well, they are DJs from Germany "Kruder & Dorfmeister"
<Zagor>	They make new versions of old C64 songs which they publish on the web. Sort of like we make a new firmware and publish it.
<Linus>	Or "4 sekunder" with Magnus Uggla
<Bagder>	hehe
<PsycoXul>	wait
<PsycoXul>	new versions of old c64 songs?
<PsycoXul>	why would you want to do that? the c64 had such a cool sound
---	Linus is now known as Linus|celebratin
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: listen to their rendition of "giana sisters". they do it justice!
*	Linus|celebratin goes to buy candy
<Zagor>	("do it justice"?) sometimes I don't even understand my own writing...
<Linus|celebratin>	Swenglish
<Zagor>	time for some candy celebration. brb
<elinenbe>	Is everyone here a sugar-holic, or is that just me?
*	Bagder is gonna get a can of coke instead
<miah>	the sidchip rules
<Bagder>	it does
*	Bagder , Linus and Zagor did lots of C64 stuff back in the late 80s
<miah>	i've been encoding all my stuff into ogg lately.. after im done doing that, im probably going to start leeching all the s3m,mod,xm's that i can
<miah>	i already have tons of sids
<miah>	on one of my systems somewhere
<PsycoXul>	yeah ogg
<miah>	oggs are good
<PsycoXul>	there needs to be a way to play ogg on the archos
<PsycoXul>	heh
<miah>	that'd be cool, i'd like to see mod/s3m/xm too
<miah>	that should be easy since those formats require very little cpu power
<Bagder>	well
<Zagor>	we need a DSP guru
<PsycoXul>	it needs realtime mixing
<Bagder>	we only have one chip that plays sound
<miah>	yea
<Zagor>	miah: those formats require multichannel mixing, which we can't do
<miah>	really?
<PsycoXul>	how many channels does the mas support to decode?
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: one mp3 stream
<Bagder>	Zagor: where can I find info about that Splimp thing you have for mp3-playback at home?
<PsycoXul>	yes
<miah>	my stupid laptop keeps going into sleep mode.. so annoying
<PsycoXul>	but mp3 streams can be multi-channel no?
<Zagor>	Bagder: www.slimdevices.com
<Bagder>	thanks
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: 2 channel, yes
<PsycoXul>	well mp3 supports more than that
<PsycoXul>	at least mpeg2 layer3
<PsycoXul>	i dunno much about the actual format though
<Zagor>	still, we'd have to mix it *and* encode it in the cpu
<PsycoXul>	are multiple channels stored within single frames, or are channel frames interpolated?
<Zagor>	feel free to try, but I think it'll be hard
---	Linus|celebratin is now known as Linus
<Zagor>	i think it's in a single frame, but I'm not sure
<PsycoXul>	well there's pcm playback firmware in existance for the mas... i wonder how many channels it can support of pcm like that
<PsycoXul>	but pcm in low quality could probably be mixed by the sh1 maybe?
<Linus>	The PCm mode will probably support only 2 channels, since the application is stereo sound
<PsycoXul>	true
<Linus>	At least the interface to the DAC is only 2 channels
<Zagor>	well we have no pcm mode yet, so whoever writes that will decide :)
<Linus>	I pass
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	so what kind of input does the dac take from the mas?
<Linus>	It's a serial interface, clock, data and frame sync
<Linus>	two time slots one for left channel, one for right
<Linus>	16-bit or 32-bit
-->	edx|sleeping (~edx@pD9EAAD21.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<edx|sleeping>	hi
---	edx|sleeping is now known as edx
<Linus>	Morning!
---	edx is now known as edx|away
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<Bagder>	Zagor: you wanna meet somewhere?
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
-->	calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<--	calpefrosch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
-->	calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
<--	calpefrosch has quit (Client Quit)
-->	calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
-->	thomasvs (~thomas@217-136-252-195.skynet.be) has joined #rockbox
<thomasvs>	kaping
<thomasvs>	hello
<thomasvs>	anyone around ?
<--	calpefrosch|away has quit ()
-->	calpefrosch (~hotrana@p5082C402.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
<adi|asleep>	only for a sec.. on my way to work...
<thomasvs>	ok
<thomasvs>	;)
<thomasvs>	I was just wandering how much an archos player costs
<miah>	about $300
<adi|asleep>	you can check them out on ebay as well...
<adi|asleep>	i picked mine up for about 200
<thomasvs>	ok, thanks
<elinenbe>	get the recoder... much nicer!
<miah>	but arnt the player and recorder basically the same thing?
<--	thomasvs has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<--	calpefrosch|away has quit ()
<elinenbe>	yes, but no.  The recorder has a more able screen...
<--	elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9+/20020414]")
-->	thomasvs (~thomas@80-200-37-136.adsl.powered-by.skynet.be) has joined #rockbox
<--	edx|away has quit ()
-->	edx|away (~edx@pD9EAAD21.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<--	thomasvs (~thomas@80-200-37-136.adsl.powered-by.skynet.be) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting")
<--	adi|work has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
-->	adiamas (~adiamas@151.204.140.140) has joined #rockbox
-->	Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<--	Zagor has quit ("bye")
<PsycoXul>	anybody around? know um...
<PsycoXul>	<segher> how many cycles to read/write that dram?
<PsycoXul>	for the player?
<PsycoXul>	<segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
<PsycoXul>	<PsycoXul> heh
<PsycoXul>	<PsycoXul> you think its possible?
<PsycoXul>	<segher> might be possible, yes
<PsycoXul>	<PsycoXul> i should send somebody who's more knowledgable on the hardware and 
<PsycoXul>	           hax0ring in here to talk to you heh
<PsycoXul>	::: haze!chris@12-255-198-216.client.attbi.com has quit: Connection timed out
<PsycoXul>	<segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
<PsycoXul>	^^ #vorbis, on player's hardware potential for decoding ogg with mas3507d + sh1 cooperating
<PsycoXul>	<segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
<PsycoXul>	<PsycoXul> ok
<PsycoXul>	<segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
<--	edx|away has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
-->	calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
<--	calpefrosch (~calpefros@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left #Rockbox
-->	Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<adi|asleep>	hey zagor...
<Zagor>	hey
<adi|asleep>	you see any problem if i hack out a menu.c/h over the weekend 
<adi|asleep>	i figure im already noticing repetition in how ppl are looking to menu in the sim...
<adi|asleep>	figured i cold give us a basis..
<adi|asleep>	rather then reinventing the wheel.
<Zagor>	sure
<adi|asleep>	have you played with the sim recently?
<Zagor>	no
<adi|asleep>	ahh...
<adi|asleep>	well.. tetris plays a bit nicer and we have a basic screen saver.....
<PsycoXul>	i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg stuff on the hardware... here's what they said:
<PsycoXul>	<segher> well, this device is really tight on resources.  good luck.
<PsycoXul>	 <segher> might be possible, yes
<PsycoXul>	<segher> with highly optimized code, it should _just_ work.
<PsycoXul>	<segher> psyco: afaics, the MAS whould be able to do the (m)dct for you
<PsycoXul>	<segher> it will be quite some (fun!) work, though
<Zagor>	interesting
<Zagor>	nobody volunteered to help? ;)
<adi|asleep>	oh.. zagor.. ment to ask...
<PsycoXul>	nope heh
<adi|asleep>	in the contrib file...
<adi|asleep>	any reason your against const?
<Zagor>	yes, people tend to use it wrong
<PsycoXul>	so i take it opendir(),readdir(), etc don't work on target yet? heh
<Zagor>	opendir/readdir works for the root dir, but currently not for subdirs. i'm fixing that right now
<adi|asleep>	i have a habit of doing it.  bear with while i adjust :)
<adi|asleep>	okay.. off to bed.. need 2 hrs...
*	Zagor just got up :)
<adi|asleep>	hehhe i _should_ be just getting up...
<adi|asleep>	06:10... gotta love it..
<PsycoXul>	Zagor: how do i open the root directory?
<Zagor>	PsycoXul: opendir("/")
<PsycoXul>	hmm
<adi|asleep>	Psyco check out tree.h and tree.c
<PsycoXul>	well that doesn't seem to return on my unit
<adi|asleep>	in uisim/x11
<adi|asleep>	PsycoXul you need to add an "archos" dir
<PsycoXul>	i'm not talking about in the sim
<adi|asleep>	that is being used to simulate the '/' on the player
<PsycoXul>	i got the sim browser to work
<PsycoXul>	heh
<adi|asleep>	heheh ahh.. k
<PsycoXul>	lemme see where its having problems actualy..
<PsycoXul>	well first thing i notice is that on my player lcd_clear_display() misses the last 2 chars
<PsycoXul>	and next is that
<PsycoXul>	        dir=opendir("/");
<PsycoXul>	doesn't return
<PsycoXul>	unless there's something i need to do before it that i'm not
<Zagor>	look in test/fat
<PsycoXul>	heh thats kinda funny if you make clean with a clean tree it generates the dependancies and then removes them :p
<Zagor>	look in test/fat/main.c
<PsycoXul>	ok
<Zagor>	you need to run ata_init(), disk_init() and fat_mount() before you can start using the disk
<PsycoXul>	ah ok
<PsycoXul>	ok i see
<PsycoXul>	anything to call later like to umount or spindown or something?
<Zagor>	you don't have to, no writing is implemented yet so it's failsafe
<PsycoXul>	why is there a firmware/disk.h and firmware/common/disk.h
<Zagor>	firmware/disk.h will change, it's just a code container at the moment
<PsycoXul>	ok
<PsycoXul>	        lcd_puts(0,0,"Hello.");
<PsycoXul>	        if(ata_init()) {
<PsycoXul>	                lcd_puts(0,0,"Disk error");
<PsycoXul>	                return -1;
<PsycoXul>	        }       
<PsycoXul>	        lcd_puts(0,0,"ata init.");
<PsycoXul>	all i get is "Hello."
<Zagor>	the ata code is not target tested yet, I'll be doing that today
<PsycoXul>	ah
<Zagor>	now we know it doesn't work :)
<PsycoXul>	hehe
-->	edx|away (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	hey ho
<Zagor>	hi
<Bagder>	I'm thinking about the played lcd API, when using x y coordinates, is 0 the first line and 1 the second?
<Bagder>	player
<Bagder>	can't see any reason why not, just checking
<Zagor>	i agree
---	Bagder is now known as Bagder|laundry
-->	elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
---	Bagder|laundry is now known as Bagder
*	Bagder starts to get the player simulator going
<Zagor>	have you seen adis latest items on the faq?
<Bagder>	nope
<Zagor>	s/latest/last/
<Zagor>	Q: But I _really_ want to talk with you in person.
<Zagor>	adiamas: I'm sorry.  My girlfriend/boyfriend/pet says I'm not allowed to, and the
<Zagor>	   doctors here won't let me have pens or pencils.  They say its some rule
<Zagor>	   about us not having sharp objects.  I'm sorry.  Now please stop calling me
<Zagor>	   here.
<Bagder>	ah yes
<Bagder>	that's a good one ;-)
<Zagor>	yes
<PsycoXul>	ok so how do i use custom chars on the player LCD with the new codebase? there an api for it?
<Bagder>	is that lcd_define_pattern() ?
<PsycoXul>	is it?
<Bagder>	I dunno ;-)
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	I think so :)
<PsycoXul>	heh so how do i use it? 
<Zagor>	1. fix it
<Zagor>	2. use it 
<Zagor>	:)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Bagder>	3. add it to the simulator 
<PsycoXul>	hehe
<Zagor>	yup, those are the official docs
<Bagder>	I have to admit that my fixes to get the player-simulator running ain't the most beautiful ones you've seen
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	i just run my test code on my player 
<Bagder>	since I want to use the bitmap functions
<Bagder>	but simulate the charcell lcd api
<PsycoXul>	i'd honestly much rather have a bootloader than a simulator personally, just wish i knew the first clue about making one heh
*	Zagor just realized he has no sh-elf-gdb :(
*	Bagder commits
<PsycoXul>	hmmm....
-->	calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C14D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #Rockbox
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
<PsycoXul>	how long does sleep(1) sleep for?
<Zagor>	one tick
<--	calpefrosch|away has quit ()
<PsycoXul>	how long is a tick?
<Zagor>	1/HZ seconds
<Zagor>	HZ is defined in kernel.h
<PsycoXul>	ah
<PsycoXul>	ok lcd_backlight() doesn't do anything on my player
<Zagor>	ok
<PsycoXul>	with 1 or 0 as the arg
<Zagor>	I guess the port pins differ
<--	Zagor has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
<--	elinenbe has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
<--	PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
<--	miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
-->	elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
-->	Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
-->	miah (21-ident-i@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	i dunno
<PsycoXul>	i do an lcd_puts and then a sleep(75); and then another lcd_puts() and i only get the 1st one
<Zagor>	you're on the cutting edge :)
<Zagor>	currently, sleep() only works right in the test/kernel code, since the main stuff doesn't have a timer interrupt enabled
<PsycoXul>	ah
<PsycoXul>	there an easy way to use it, or should i do something to sleep?
<Zagor>	i'd suggest a busy wait at the moment
<PsycoXul>	whats that? :p
<Zagor>	a for() loop instead of the sleep
<PsycoXul>	i see, so thats what thats called heh
<Zagor>	the term "busy" is used for when you don't allow other threads to execute
<PsycoXul>	ok now this loop is working but within it i'm doing key=button_get(); if(key) { switch(key) { case etc etc } } 
<PsycoXul>	i've got cases for BUTTON_DOWN, UP, ON, LEFT, RIGHT, and MENU, and default
<PsycoXul>	and with our without a button pressed it hits default
<PsycoXul>	s/our/or/
<Zagor>	sounds good
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	man
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	shouldn't a make clean rm */*.o too? and not generate dependancies? heh
<Zagor>	picky picky :)
<PsycoXul>	oh come ON... umount's gonna hang now again already? fuck
<Zagor>	usb-storage is far from perfect...
<PsycoXul>	well it needs to do something different thats for sure... can't accomplish much being forced to reboot at its random whims
<PsycoXul>	at least like TIME OUT or SOMETHING
<Zagor>	he's doing a big rewrite for 2.5
<PsycoXul>	reboot, turn the thing back on, plug it in, load the modules, copy a file and it hangs right there AGAIN
<PsycoXul>	not a whole lot of things get me upset... but having to reboot over and over again because of some stupid device that shouldn't be having any problems to start with, much less make me have to actualy interrupt my system usage, and having to wait months/years for the fix is exactly why i don't run some OTHER OS
<Zagor>	heh, yeah...
<Zagor>	you should consider the serial port fix
<PsycoXul>	goddamn i can't get this one little file copied on here now
<PsycoXul>	3 reboots and it STILL fucking up
<PsycoXul>	and then i'll still need to copy the real working firmware back on to there once i get this to work
<PsycoXul>	i'll probably have to fucknig juggle hardware, boot it to windows and scandisk, juggle hardware back, boot back to linux, probably have to reboot a few more times 
*	PsycoXul considers selling his archos and taking the money for vocal lessons
<PsycoXul>	hey i can store a lot more than 20G worth of music in my head :p
<Zagor>	:)
*	Zagor sings in a chamber choir
<PsycoXul>	ok so i made the default do
<PsycoXul>	snprintf(ugh,11,"%d",key);
<PsycoXul>	lcd_puts(0,0,ugh);
<Zagor>	ok
<PsycoXul>	i get 243 with no buttons, 242 for ON, 241 for menu, 227 for play/up, 211 for stop/down, 179 for left, and 115 for right
<PsycoXul>	and various others with combinations heh
<Zagor>	from button_get() ?
<PsycoXul>	yeah
<Zagor>	odd
<Zagor>	it should return 1,2,4,8 etc no?
<PsycoXul>	well looking at the code, thats what you'd think.. heh
<Zagor>	uhu
<PsycoXul>	same with or without calling button_init() first
<PsycoXul>	heh
<PsycoXul>	btw i think portc & 0x10 gets triggered on the player when the stop buttons held for 3 seconds or whatever, just before it shuts off
<Zagor>	yes, that would be interesting
<PsycoXul>	i don't even know what & does... i don't know much if anything about binary and binary operations or low-level programming or anything like that though...
<PsycoXul>	my latest project with C was struggling to successfully read a wav header into a struct from stdin heh
<Zagor>	& is "and". portc & 0x10 tests if bit 4 is set in portc
<PsycoXul>	bit 4?
<Zagor>	yes, bit0 = 0x01, 1=0x02, 2=0x04, 3=0x08, 4=0x10
<PsycoXul>	ok
<PsycoXul>	know of any good online docs that'd teach me this kinda stuff? 
<Zagor>	umm, no
<Zagor>	:)
<PsycoXul>	heh
<Zagor>	maybe http://www.learn-c.com/
<Zagor>	http://www.learn-c.com/boolean.htm
<PsycoXul>	cool.. i'll read that later... enough hax0ring stuff today for me heh
<Zagor>	:)
<--	Zagor has quit ("bye")
<--	elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<--	edx|away has quit ("brb")
-->	edx (~edx@pD9EA97B2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<--	PsycoXul has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
<--	miah has quit (zahn.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
-->	miah (21-ident-i@pihkal.com) has joined #rockbox
-->	PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
---	Disconnected (Connection timed out).
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May  5 01:46:26 2002

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May  6 00:25:45 2002

-->	stile (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-71.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
---	Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
<--	adiamas has quit (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement)))
-->	lou_soyur (~adiamas@pool-151-204-140-140.ny325.east.verizon.net) has joined #rockbox
---	You are now known as adiamas
-->	[TDM]Mr_B|away (~nx_2000@ip68-0-62-70.no.no.cox.net) has joined #rockbox
---	[TDM]Mr_B|away is now known as [TDM]Mr_B
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
<[TDM]Mr_B>	hello?
<Bagder>	hey ho
<[TDM]Mr_B>	...just an outsider with some questions
<Bagder>	go ahead and ask, I'll try to answer
<[TDM]Mr_B>	i've been following this project for a short while and i'm very interested...
<[TDM]Mr_B>	I was wondering what progress you've made.  Is there anything working that a programming novice can use?
<Bagder>	we're doing two different simulators, for running the app itself on host machines
<Bagder>	one for win32, one for X11
<[TDM]Mr_B>	is there an exe of that sim?
<Bagder>	we do not have the app actually running on target just yet
<Bagder>	edx is the author of the win32 simulator, we should ask him to post a binary on the web site
<[TDM]Mr_B>	exactly what improvments/additions are you guys working on?
<Bagder>	I think many of them are mentioned of the web site
<Bagder>	we need to implement everything by ourselves
<Bagder>	so we will try to write an mp3 player software that meets the audience demands
<[TDM]Mr_B>	when do you think some of these enhancments will be avaliable for the layman to download?
<Bagder>	we *hope* we will have the first actual target firmware that works *somewhat* before the end of this month
<[TDM]Mr_B>	cool
<[TDM]Mr_B>	how well does tretris work?
<[TDM]Mr_B>	...tetris
<Bagder>	it works pretty good ;-)
<Bagder>	no scores yet though
<Bagder>	I expect that we will get even more programmers joining up the very second we have a first target version
<[TDM]Mr_B>	i'm looking forward to all of it
<Bagder>	:-) me too
<[TDM]Mr_B>	I see you guys are working on a FAT 32 fs
<Bagder>	yes, we need that to be able to read the disk
<[TDM]Mr_B>	I guess that would make installation/use easier?
<Bagder>	the disk is using fat32, we need to read dirs/files from it...
<[TDM]Mr_B>	ok, I get it
<[TDM]Mr_B>	would you mind tellingme exactly what other modifications you guys are working on?
<Bagder>	we replace the entire software
<Bagder>	we hope to make the player more intuitive and more capable than the built-in software
<Bagder>	if you've used it, you know it isn't very good
<Bagder>	its about resuming play in a playlist
<Bagder>	handling big playlists
<Bagder>	and all sorts of stuff
<[TDM]Mr_B>	well, thanks for entertaining my questions
<Bagder>	personally, I do most of this because of the shear fun
<[TDM]Mr_B>	same here, only with coding hypertext
*	adiamas coughs "Read the faq"
<Bagder>	feel free to let us know if you think you can help out the project in any way you see fit
*	adiamas nods
<adiamas>	hey Bagder whats doing?
<Bagder>	did lots yesterdat, as the CVS-list shows ;-)
<adiamas>	heheh yeah..
<adiamas>	I _can't_ believe that i forgot to call the function pointers when i put that in :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<[TDM]Mr_B>	...I read the FAQ 3 times
<adiamas>	heheh k :)
<adiamas>	can't help; it... 
<adiamas>	its my pet project :)
<adiamas>	any suggestions on additions or rewording?
<Bagder>	adiamas: "why do you write a replacement software?"
<Bagder>	adiamas: "when do you think there is a version available for my Archos?"
<[TDM]Mr_B>	well, it doesn't answer too many questions
<[TDM]Mr_B>	tell people about exactly what's being redone and maybe when people will be able to enjoy your labors on their players
<adiamas>	What exactly are you trying to achieve with this line of development?
<adiamas>	should that be reworded?
<Bagder>	adiamas: could you unmber the questions? it would be easier to direct people to a specific question then
<Bagder>	hm
<Bagder>	number
<adiamas>	hmmm how shoul di answer "when do you think there will be a version available?"
<adiamas>	sure could...
<Bagder>	adiamas: well, I think that question deserves to be answered very unspecific
<Bagder>	we might all get very busy all of a sudden
<Bagder>	so say something like maybe in a month, maybe in three, maybe in six
<[TDM]Mr_B>	true
<[TDM]Mr_B>	to quote Dilbert... "ONe month to complete the project and 5 months to play 'Doom' on my computer."
<adiamas>	lol
<Bagder>	in this case, of course, it is Tetris ;-)
*	Bagder just applied patched mailed to him from Dave Chapman
<Bagder>	patches
<Bagder>	grrrr, can't type
<adiamas>	hmmm ... i need a polite way of saying 'Fuck off you complete moron."
<adiamas>	Suggestions?
<Bagder>	heh, in which context?
<adiamas>	never mind.. i have an answer...
<Bagder>	you're the american ;-)
<Bagder>	Mr_B: where are you from?
-->	calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
<calpefrosch>	moin
<Bagder>	morning calpefrosch
<Bagder>	the win32 simulator might need some attention now ;-)
*	Bagder whistles innocently
<calpefrosch>	hmm, let's talk about some details. 
*	Bagder browses subdirs in his simulator!
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: what kind of details?
<[TDM]Mr_B>	...New Orleans
<adiamas>	okay.. faq updated.. anyone wanna take a look?
*	Bagder shows his thumbs up
<adiamas>	:)
<adiamas>	im a bit heavy on the sarcasm.. but bugger it... let them deal with it...
<Bagder>	we need that
<[TDM]Mr_B>	...an improvment...and I love sarcasm
<Bagder>	it makes it more obvious everything isn't so serious
*	Bagder runs for more coffee
*	adiamas cheers wildly
<adiamas>	[TDM]Mr_B your on windows correct?
<[TDM]Mr_B>	Windows XP home
<[TDM]Mr_B>	well, I should reall y be in bed, night folks
<--	[TDM]Mr_B has quit ()
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Bagder>	morning Zagor
<Zagor>	morn
<Zagor>	you sure had a busy sunday :)
<Bagder>	yeps, did my share of cleaning up ;-)
<calpefrosch>	sorry, have been to a meeting
<Bagder>	Zagor: the simulator is growing cooler
<Zagor>	nice!
<Bagder>	Dave Chapman stepped in and sent me patches too
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Linus>	Boo!
*	Bagder boos Linus back
<adiamas>	looking at the throughput that this guy dave is doing.. maybe he should be considered for cvs access...
<Bagder>	yes, I mailed him about it
<adiamas>	cool
<calpefrosch>	Badger: I ment which kind of attention ?
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: ah, it won't build just now since I've added more firmware files to the build
*	adiamas screams
*	adiamas slams his head against the wall..
<Bagder>	keeping both simulators up-to-date is a challange
<adiamas>	okay.. i screwed up.. so i may as well clue everyone in...
*	adiamas was working on tic-tac-toe for the archos...
*	adiamas was 1/2 way there...
<Linus>	adiamas is a hero
<calpefrosch>	Badger: ok, I'll try to build it this morning. 
*	adiamas f***ed up...
<adiamas>	see... before i went to see the girlfriend this weekend i 'cleaned' up[ my sim dir...
*	adiamas doesn't really remember deleteing the files.. but they are gone
<adiamas>	so it's gonna be a few days to finish :(
<Bagder>	:-/
<Linus>	We have a saying:
<Linus>	"do it properly, or do it many times"
<Linus>	:-)
<adiamas>	oh.. i did it properly...
<adiamas>	if deletion was our aim...
<Linus>	and now you will do it again
<adiamas>	lol
<adiamas>	yup
<adiamas>	oh.. btw.. was it cool that i went to function pointers on the sim?
<adiamas>	just seemed to make more sense
<Bagder>	yeah, its good
<Linus>	I just got the MAS DMA working...
<Bagder>	*cool*
*	Zagor feels Linus breathing down his neck again...
<calpefrosch>	badger: what is that header "unistd.h" ?
<calpefrosch>	btw, sorry for *always* changing the letters b and g ... 
<Bagder>	hehe
<Linus>	We have a serious problem with the project...
<adiamas>	whats that?
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: I don't think that should be included
<Linus>	Apparently, Zagor pretends that he has a life, seriously slowing down the development!!! :-)
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: as that is a unix-only include file
<adiamas>	LOL
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	hahaha
*	adiamas pokes Zagor
<adiamas>	oh.. i had an idea while driving my 2.5 hrs back home..
<Zagor>	I knew you'd see right through me :)
<adiamas>	i was doing random through one of my playlists...
<Bagder>	random thoughts are good :-P
<Zagor>	adiamas: you have a 2.5h commute?!?
<adiamas>	and realized it would be _really_ cool if i could hit a button and have the current song added to a 'favorites' list
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: It's in the ID3.c. Could you remove it, or do you need it there?
<Linus>	adiamas: great idea
<adiamas>	Zagor: nah.. only to see my girlfriend.
<Zagor>	ah
<adiamas>	i figured.. this 'favorite' list could just be a dynamic playlist...
<Linus>	adiamas has a life too?
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: *gone*
<adiamas>	because with 1000+ plus songs it _sucks_ to have to manually pick out my favs...
<Linus>	Just delete the other ones. :-)
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: tnx
<adiamas>	Linus:  a girlfriend 2 hrs away, a job, ride for my ambulance core ... _And_ i still find time to hang out here and be unproductive and sarcastic...
<adiamas>	:)
*	adiamas smiles at linus
*	Linus smiles
*	adiamas thinks your just jealous cause i wrote a cheap little screensaver... :)
*	Linus tries to have a life too...wife and kids!
<Zagor>	Linus: that's a life? ;)
<adiamas>	congrats...
<Linus>	:-)
<adiamas>	how long you been married mate?
<Linus>	Almost 2 years
<Bagder>	2+ here
<adiamas>	hehe
<adiamas>	im just starting to get to that point...
<adiamas>	friggin distance is killing me
---	Tumm is now known as coyote-
<adiamas>	umm... any chance of having the DISPLAY value in the sim makefile be a bit more useful?
<adiamas>	someone who doesn't know the project won't know which is which....
<adiamas>	CHARCELLS vs BITMAP
<Bagder>	well
<Bagder>	I didn't wanna use the actual target-defines
<adiamas>	how do you mean?
<Bagder>	we use ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER for target builds
<adiamas>	ahh.. i got ya...
<Bagder>	but they imply more than just different LCDs
<Bagder>	maybe we can just add two big comments in the Makefile for now, explaining which is which
<adiamas>	well.. its only the recorder that has BITMAP right?
<Bagder>	yes
<adiamas>	well.. instead of HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS .. what about HAVE_RECORDER_LCD
<Bagder>	thinking about it...
<adiamas>	nods
<Bagder>	ARCHOS_PLAYER and ARCHOS_RECORDER would probably be best
<Bagder>	then we'll be forced to include "config.h" properly
<adiamas>	hmm.. well.. id rather stay the way we are then for now...
<Bagder>	anyway, those defines are documented in firmware/CONFIG
*	adiamas nods
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: do we use harness.c or app.c for the sim ?
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: remove the harness.c completely from the sim
<Bagder>	it isn't meant to be there
<Bagder>	app.c is the app main entry
<calpefrosch>	ok
*	calpefrosch have to go to a meeting.
<calpefrosch>	brb
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|meet
<adiamas>	could someone explain this to me?
<adiamas>	$(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
<adiamas>	i know cc and cflags
<adiamas>	-c im good
<adiamas>	-o im good
<adiamas>	but on a makefile i forget what $< and $@ are...
<Bagder>	$< is the file on the right side of the : in the rule-line above
<adiamas>	okay...
<Bagder>	and $@ is the file on the left side of the : above
<adiamas>	ahh.. okay.. thanks
<Linus>	Actually, $< is the file that triggered the rebuild, isn't it?
<Zagor>	no, that could be a .h file
<Linus>	So what is $< when there are two files on the right side?
<Bagder>	the first one I think
<Zagor>	the first, I think
<Zagor>	:)
<Linus>	OK. And $* is all of them, right?
<Zagor>	ummm 'info make'
<Zagor>	;)
<adiamas>	im just trying to find a way to clean up the sim makefile
<adiamas>	i have to believe there is an easier way to build the app obj files w/o having to do : filename.o: $(DIRPATH)/filename.c
<adiamas>	    $(CC) $(CFLAGS) -c $< -o $@
<adiamas>	10 times
<Bagder>	this klez virus sure is annoying
<adiamas>	heheh whats the prob?
<Bagder>	it mails
<adiamas>	got ya
<Bagder>	I've received >50 mails with klez
<Zagor>	yeah
<Bagder>	it fakes From: line, and it fakes Subject: and it attaches the virus
---	calpefrosch|meet is now known as calpefrosch
<adiamas>	as far as menus go... for sim and target.. should we assume that all menu items will be the same size...
<adiamas>	and if the user wants to increase the font, they do so for all menus?
<Zagor>	for now, sure
<Bagder>	adiamas: oh yes, certainly
<adiamas>	k
<Bagder>	hm, the cvs page doesn't mention the cvs-commit mailing list
<Zagor>	right
<Bagder>	is that one mentioned on any page?
<adiamas>	in emacs.. how do i open a fresh buffer?
<Zagor>	i don't think so, only in mail
<adiamas>	like the scratch buffer..
<Zagor>	adiamas: C-x b
<Bagder>	adiams: control-x b
<adiamas>	thanks
<adiamas>	not switch.. i know that one...
<adiamas>	to create a clean unused buffer...
<Bagder>	enter a name of a non-existing buffer
<adiamas>	ahhh k
<Bagder>	*plopp*
<Linus>	Intuitive, right? :-)
<adiamas>	hehehe
<adiamas>	sure
<adiamas>	im looking at app.c
<adiamas>	wouldn't it make more sense to have #include "tree.h" and #include screensaver inside the #ifdef HAVE_LCD_BITMAP?
<Bagder>	it depends, the tree.c functionality should probably work on the Player too
<Bagder>	the screensaver though, could very well be inside that #ifdef
<adiamas>	k...
<adiamas>	ill fix that then
<Bagder>	Zagor: how do I figure out the attributes of a dirent struct? Can I see if its a file or dir there?
<Zagor>	yes, I just have to add the ATTR* macros from fat.h into dir.h
<Bagder>	ok, then I'll need to make sure the simulator supports them
<Zagor>	yup
<Zagor>	not perfectly POSIX, but I think it's a fair trade-off
<Bagder>	I agree
<adiamas>	umm.. what do we call a menu item?
<adiamas>	is the generic term 'item' okay?
<adiamas>	more specifically 'menu_item'
<Zagor>	menu_item sounds nice :)
<adiamas>	k...
<adiamas>	hehhe okay.. its offical.. we have the first stages of a menu api
<Zagor>	goodie
<adiamas>	once i commit, im going to ask you to look at the menu.h file and see if the functions make sense w/o comments.
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	the struct name shouldn't use uppercase
<adiamas>	at all?
<Zagor>	what's the difference btwn put_cursor(0) and put_cursor_menu_top?
<Zagor>	no, only lowercase
<adiamas>	scrolling menus...
<adiamas>	idea is that put_cursor puts you at the top of the menu all togeather..
<adiamas>	put_cursor_menu_top wold be viable menu
<adiamas>	right now there is no difference
<Zagor>	ok
<adiamas>	basically.. put_cursor() puts you _anywhere_ 
<adiamas>	ill clear it all up in comments as i go...
<Zagor>	ok
<adiamas>	that and ill try for better names...
<adiamas>	i just get sick when i think of "put_cursor_to_top_of_visable_menu()"
<adiamas>	:)
<Zagor>	uh, me too...
<Zagor>	I prefer fewer functions with parameter rather than many (void) functions
<Zagor>	within reason, of course
<adiamas>	so do i...
<adiamas>	downside right now is there isnt much our menuing is doing...
<adiamas>	always easier to coalese basic functions togeather...
<adiamas>	least for me
<Zagor>	yeah, I'll give you some slack for the moment :)
<adiamas>	oh sure.. make it easy...
<adiamas>	what im trying to figure out is how to handle sub menus...
<adiamas>	what i was thinking is that maybe we keep the menu_struct we have..
<adiamas>	but as we add submenus we just create an array of the structs...
<Bagder>	adiamas: first, can you think of any submenu we should have?
<adiamas>	and jsut reference them.. but im not sure..
<adiamas>	sure...
<adiamas>	:games
<Bagder>	right
<adiamas>	and when we get more ppl playing with the ui, itll get more robust...
<adiamas>	options menu
<adiamas>	i ment to ask.. seeing as you'all are working in firmware...
<adiamas>	i know the idea of a 'boot' loader is not a good idea... but what about the ability for the user to have a menu to choose which version of firmware to boot with next?
<Bagder>	of course we want that
<adiamas>	rather then having to copy files too and from the archos to play with firmware
<Bagder>	exactly
<Bagder>	you could have X different firmwares
<adiamas>	nods
<Linus>	I can't recall that anybody said a boot loader was a bad idea...
*	adiamas assumed....
<adiamas>	so shoot me :)
<Linus>	Actually, we have talked a lot about that, the project name is called RoLo
<Linus>	for Rockbox Loader
<adiamas>	sweet...
<Linus>	...as candy
<adiamas>	you guys have done a fantastic job getting off metal quick.. have i mentioned that?
*	Zagor notes it's even in the Activity chart on the web page
<Linus>	Thx
<adiamas>	umm.. in API
<adiamas>	we list mp3info as returning FALSE if successful
<adiamas>	huh?
<adiamas>	that can't be right.
<Bagder>	correct
<Bagder>	that's wrong ;-)
<adiamas>	k.. ive got it
<Bagder>	euhhh
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	it is correct
<adiamas>	okay.. so it _should_ be FALSE?
<adiamas>	ummm.. that seems really counterintuitive guys?
<Bagder>	it works that way now
<Bagder>	not really
<Bagder>	because it leaves the opportunity to return different return codes for different failures
<adiamas>	but TRUE should _never_ be a failure...
<adiamas>	unless the function is invalid_mp3info()
<calpefrosch>	I made the win32-sim working. how can I diff so you can work with ?
<Linus>	If you plan to use other return codes that TRUE or FALSE you should use another return type.
*	adiamas nods
<Bagder>	yes, but I wouldn't have to change the checks
<Linus>	I don't follow
<Bagder>	non-zero would mean error
<adiamas>	i still don't get why FALSE means you _were_ able to fine mp3info
<Zagor>	FALSE is boolean, this is int
<Zagor>	it's 0, not FALSE
<Linus>	Bagder: of course. That is why you should use int
<Bagder>	nag nag
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: I
<adiamas>	correct correct
<Bagder>	'd prefer a diff -u ...
<Linus>	And the comment above the function says it returns "void" :-)
<Bagder>	hehe
<Linus>	That is a rather redundant comment.
<Bagder>	it *did*
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: ok, but I'm a windows-user. I only have checkboxes in wincvs ;-)
<adiamas>	well.. im submitting grammer corrections now.. 
<adiamas>	argue once it's in
<Linus>	Anyone can see what the function returns
<calpefrosch>	which should I check ?
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: ok, a unified diff, you should be able to make one of those I guess
<adiamas>	okay.. commited
<adiamas>	is there a way to prevent dependancy checking when you are doing a make clean?
<Zagor>	calpefrosch: I'll add you for cvs commit access. what's your sourceforge ID?
<calpefrosch>	I have no ID yet
<Zagor>	ok
<calpefrosch>	I will create it now, ok?
<Bagder>	run run! ;-)
<adiamas>	am i correct that to adjust the lcd size i edit lcd-x11?
<adiamas>	or lcd-win32 respectively?
<Bagder>	what size?
<Bagder>	of the window?
<adiamas>	well. when i compile the sim for recorder.. size is fine..
<adiamas>	when i compile fore player... it doen'st make sense to keep the ui the same size..
<Bagder>	true
<adiamas>	dunno how to fix it.. wantted to see how to do it
<Bagder>	the size for the x11 sim window is in the screenhack.c file
<adiamas>	is that default_defaults?
<Bagder>	yep
<adiamas>	is the player the same width?
<adiamas>	just only 2 lines hight?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	it's 2 X 11 letters
<Bagder>	but there should be room for some icons too, I think
-->	linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	I'm not really good on the player lcd
<Bagder>	hey Dave
<linuxstb>	Hello everyone.
<adiamas>	k.. then ill leave it for tomorrow.. i need sleep bad...
<adiamas>	night all
<Linus>	Hi!
<adiamas>	welcome dave
<Bagder>	night adiamas
*	adiamas waves
---	You are now known as adi|sleep
<calpefrosch>	Zagor: my ID is 536571
<Zagor>	I need the username
<calpefrosch>	calpefrosch
<calpefrosch>	what else ;-)
<Zagor>	:)
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	now you're added. and Dave, you've been added too.
<linuxstb>	Thanks.  I plan to work on the directory browsing a little more today - mainly to implement scrolling.
<Bagder>	goodie
<Zagor>	nice
<Bagder>	it _is_ a bit limited right now, indeed ;-)
<calpefrosch>	tnx
<linuxstb>	Has anyone thought about an API for actually playing audio files?
<Bagder>	linuxstb: we'll change the is_dir() stuff to instead use the dirent struct as soon as we know how Zagor will feature the atrributes
<linuxstb>	Agreed about is_dir() - that was just a quick hack by me.
<Bagder>	oh sure, it works fine for now
<Zagor>	linuxstb: not yet. it'll be something simple, since the playing is handled by DMA and a "feed" thread
<linuxstb>	I have a little experience of using libmad, so would like to implement mp3 playing in the simulator.
<Bagder>	hehe
<Zagor>	sure
<calpefrosch>	Zagor: can you help me with the setup of cvs?
<Zagor>	Linus: you should add the timer interrupt code to the main firmware dir. we need to use sleep()
<Zagor>	calpefrosch: not for wincvs, I'm afraid. follow the wincvs link on the cvs info page.
<calpefrosch>	ok
<Linus>	It's in kernel.c
<Zagor>	Linus: yes, but it's not started
<Linus>	kernel_init()
<Zagor>	ok, good
<Linus>	You will have to lower the interrupt mask with set_irq_level(0) after kernel_init()
<Linus>	And I use system.c for the interrupt vectors
<Zagor>	so the current system.c is good?
<Linus>	Works for me
<Zagor>	ok
<Linus>	Actually, it's quite handy with the weak symbols when developing
<Zagor>	blaeh
<Zagor>	:)
Linus linuxstb <Linus>	That way I don't need my own system.c in every test directory
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch
---	Linus is now known as Linus|pizza
<Bagder>	wow pizza
*	Bagder starts to get hungry too
<linuxstb>	Re MP3 api: I think we need a "play queue" in memory of the filenames of the next 3 or 4 tracks to play.  The MP3 thread "just" plays files from this queue, and the UI thread modifies it.
<Bagder>	or perhaps the mp3-playing thread have direct-access to the playlist/queue we work on
<linuxstb>	What is the difference?
<Bagder>	I'm just thinking what happens when you select "back"
<Bagder>	if the mp3-thread can peek in the list, it just picks the previos tune and plays it
<Bagder>	if we'd feed the thread with a special queue to play, we'd need to take care of special situations 
<linuxstb>	I would like a simple MP3 thread that is independent of the way songs are selected.
<Bagder>	off for lunch
---	Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
<linuxstb>	I was thinking what information the MP3 thread needed, and the minimum is just the next n tracks - enough to keep the play buffer full.
<PsycoXul>	play buffer full?
<PsycoXul>	how much ram do the recorders have? more than 2MB?
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: Do you know why I always get this message: cvs [server aborted]: "commit" requires write access to the repository
<calpefrosch>	if I want to commit?
<Linus|pizza>	The cvs server has a list of people with commit access, which I assume you are not yet part of.
---	Linus|pizza is now known as Linus
<calpefrosch>	Zagor wanted to put me on the list
<Linus>	Zagor tells me that you have checked out anonymously. You have to check out everything -ext
<Linus>	but backup the entire tree first. :-)
-->	alkorr (alkorr@srs03v-1-73.n.club-internet.fr) has joined #rockbox
<calpefrosch>	ahhh, tnx
<Linus>	Yo alan!
<alkorr>	yo Linus, not eating ?
<Linus>	full of pizza right now
<alkorr>	lol
<alkorr>	well it's time i have all commited
<--	Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<alkorr>	see you later
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<--	alkorr has quit (Client Quit)
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<--	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Bagder|eats is now known as Bagder
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: I'm just commiting the win32-sim, I hope it is everything ok
<Bagder>	cool
<Linus>	calpefrosch: Why both logf() and debugf()
<calpefrosch>	logf was missing. I don't know where it should be...
<calpefrosch>	where is it in X11 ?
<Bagder>	I think it should use debugf() instead
<Linus>	My question was, why do we need two functions for the same thing?
<Bagder>	or
<Bagder>	do they?
<Bagder>	it isn't really clear to me what debugf() does in the simulator
<Linus>	The simulator doesn't have a console?
<Bagder>	I think so
<Bagder>	but what's mem2hex and putpacket ?
<calpefrosch>	hmmm, they use logf e.g. in play.c and the debugf in playlist.c
<Linus>	Strange.
<calpefrosch>	if I start the simulator in VC++ I get a console output...
<Bagder>	and the simulator don't set DEBUG either, not now at least
<Linus>	Bagder: those functions are for GDB communication
<Bagder>	so what does debugf() do when used in the simulator?
<Linus>	Whatever you, the simulator writer, wants it to. Preferably write to a console.
<Bagder>	sure, but it doesn't do that now, does it?
<calpefrosch>	I'm sorry, but unfortunately I have to do "real" work now. :-(
<calpefrosch>	see you later
<Bagder>	oh
<Linus>	Bagder: I guess not.
<Bagder>	there are two implementatins
*	calpefrosch is going to work
<Bagder>	see ya calpefrosch
<Linus>	CU!
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|work
<Bagder>	Linus: do you use the DEBUG define for anything when you build your stuff?
<Linus>	No, not that I can remember.
<Bagder>	ok
<Linus>	I think that debug.c could contain code for all platforms.
<Bagder>	I think so too
<Bagder>	I'll make it 
<Linus>	Or is it kludgy?
<Bagder>	debug() it is
<Bagder>	debugf() even
<Linus>	Greato!
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
*	Bagder got no post-lunch coffe, the machine is broken. aaaaaah!
*	Zagor is fetching his third after-lunch coffee :)
*	Bagder hears that someone has fixed the machine and ruuuuuuns
<Bagder>	turned out to be a rumour, had to walk down some stairs to get a cup
<calpefrosch|work>	I thought you (zagor and Bagder) are working in the same company...
<Bagder>	we're consultants, so we're hired to different customers
<Linus>	In fact, I and Zagor are at the same customer right now.
<calpefrosch|work>	aha, I see. We are also working together with some consultants
<Bagder>	so we don't actually meet in person that often
<Bagder>	Zagor: thanks for the atributes, I'll try to make the simulator use them tonight or so
<Zagor>	nice
<calpefrosch|work>	I make a scrolling feature for the simulator
<calpefrosch|work>	Should I check in ?
<Bagder>	scrolling feature?
<calpefrosch|work>	scrolling thru the dir...
<Linus>	And I'll just go and kill myself. I HATE THAT F***ING MAS DEMAND PIN!
<calpefrosch|work>	Linus: what's the problem ? you can tell me, I listen to you :-)
<Linus>	The problem is that the Demand pin on the MAS is going up and down like mad in the beginning of a song.
<Linus>	And the Player only generates an interrupt when the signal goes low
<Linus>	so I have to poll it to find out when it goes high
<Linus>	very often...
<calpefrosch|work>	too often...
<Linus>	indeed
<calpefrosch|work>	-o
<calpefrosch|work>	where is the input-pin at the SH1 ?
<Linus>	The Archos firmware initialization bears some evidence of them using a timer to start the DMA. I may have to disassemble it to see what it does.
<Linus>	It's on IRQ6
<Bagder>	gotta go, might pop by later
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
<Linus>	CU!
<calpefrosch|work>	I would like to commit tree.c with the changed scrolling. Can anybody test it with X11 ?
<linuxstb>	Yes - I can check tree.c with X11.  mailto dave@dchapman.com
-->	wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	i'm off. see you!
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<wavey>	linus: congrats with the mas :)
<Linus>	Thanks
<Linus>	But it is really hard to write a driver for it that doesn't hog the CPU...
---	coyote- is now known as Tumm
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	edx (~edx@pD9EAB563.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<--	wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<linuxstb>	Is there a maximum number of files/subdirs in a directory for FAT32?  Is the root directory different?
<calpefrosch|work>	linuxstb: It's working perfectly...
<calpefrosch|work>	please commit the changes. Maybe it would be too slow at long dirs, because we search everytime from the beginning. 
<linuxstb>	We need to read the whole directory into memory for two reasons - caching and sorting
<linuxstb>	OK - I'll commit the new scrolling tree.c
<calpefrosch|work>	tnx
---	calpefrosch|work is now known as calpefrosch|away
<linuxstb>	new tree.c committed
<--	calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has left #Rockbox
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	calpefrosch (calpefrosc@p5082C6D8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
<Linus>	yo
<calpefrosch>	yo, brb
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|brb
---	Linus is now known as Linus|away
---	lou_soyur is now known as adi|work
<--	edx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
<--	calpefrosch|brb has quit ()
<--	linuxstb has quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.0")
---	Linus|away is now known as Linus
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	calpefrosch|away (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox
<calpefrosch|away>	morning bagder
---	calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
<calpefrosch>	morning all 
<Bagder>	morning
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|away
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Bagder
---	You are now known as adiamas
<Bagder>	hi adiamas
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to adiamas
<adiamas>	hey Bagder
<adiamas>	guess what?
<Bagder>	tic tac toe rocks? ;-)
<adiamas>	hehe not yet
<adiamas>	but...
---	adiamas removes channel operator status from Bagder
<adiamas>	hehehehe
---	adiamas gives channel operator status to Bagder
<adiamas>	just felt like being silly
<Bagder>	:-)
*	Bagder walks away to check if the coffee machine works today
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	morning Linus
<Linus>	mooning
<Linus>	:-)
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	hey all
<Linus>	The feeding of the MAS with DMA works splendidly!
<Bagder>	you rock Linus
<Linus>	I do!
<Linus>	:-)
<Linus>	But I think those Archos guys save a penny too much when designing the hardware
<Linus>	saved
<Bagder>	any ata/fat32 mp3-reading in sight?
<Linus>	Zagor "I Have A Life" Stenberg is lazy
<Linus>	I suggest we replace him
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	maybe we can just yell at him a lot until he improves?
*	Linus screams at Zagor!
<adiamas>	Linus why do you say that about the archos guys>
<PsycoXul>	just look at the player's LCD
<PsycoXul>	i mean come on i saw wristwatches 5 years ago far cheaper with more flexible displays :p
*	Bagder added common/strtok.c
<Linus>	adiamas: I say that because they haven't connected the inverted demand pin to an IRQ
<Linus>	so I have to poll the damn thing ever millisecond
<Linus>	every
<adiamas>	okay.. im very much not a hardware guy, so what is an 'inverted demand' pin?
-->	wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	wavey the man!
<wavey>	howdy :)
*	wavey been gamecubing all weekend ;)
<Bagder>	hehehe
<Bagder>	I hope you don't mind me messing in your code in the mean time ;-)
<wavey>	no problem :)
<adiamas>	okay, ill ask..
<wavey>	bbl
<adiamas>	why did we have to rewrite strtok?
*	wavey waves
<adiamas>	i know there is a recursive one...
<Bagder>	wavey: I made the randomiser a lot faster, I changed the read-indices function and I made your test program build and run on my linux
<Bagder>	adiamas: because strtok() stores data in a static area
<adiamas>	Bagder i know..
<adiamas>	but there is a strtok_r already writen
<Bagder>	in newlib?
<adiamas>	its part of the standard library
<adiamas>	in new lib.. that i don't know :)
<Bagder>	strtok_r() is not standard unfortunately
<Bagder>	that's why I have that code written in the first place ;-)
<adiamas>	thats why i asked :)
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	newlib's strtok_r uses a thread context
<Zagor>	so bagder's is better
<Zagor>	Bagder: why are you including both stddef.h and string.h in strtok?
<Bagder>	good q, remove the stddef.h
<Bagder>	it was just ripped out from my curl sources
<--	wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<Linus>	I think the thread context is a good thing. Why is it bad?
<Zagor>	it's unnecessary
<Bagder>	how does it manage "thread context" ?
<Linus>	The context switcher (thread.c) assigns a new "current" pointer when it switches context
<Linus>	All newlib functions with static data stores data in the struct pointed by "current" (or whatever it is called
<Bagder>	ok, thanks
<Zagor>	...which means: a) we have to init newlib for each thread and b) we have to swap newlib context
<Bagder>	doesn't it store errno there too?
<Linus>	Yes it does
<Linus>	Zagor: yes
<Bagder>	so we'd need to watch out for that
<Linus>	Indeed
<Zagor>	errno is not as much a problem, since we're unlikely to call a newlib function, yield, and then look at errno
<Linus>	The called function itself may yield, however
<Bagder>	possibly, I was more thinking about that it stores errno relative the current and thus it needs to be somewhat correct
<Zagor>	Linus: no
<Zagor>	no newlib functions call yield()
<Linus>	True
<adiamas>	umm... the chars shown in the char maps on the web site... how can i use those?
<Zagor>	this falls into the "neat but not immediately neccessary" category
<Bagder>	adiamas: the player chars?
<adiamas>	yeah.
<Zagor>	just display them
<adiamas>	ummmm how?
<Zagor>	lcd_puts() ?
<Bagder>	we need to convert them to our iternal format
<Bagder>	lcd_puts() is still using Gary's fonts
<adiamas>	well, not just chars
<Bagder>	even for player simul
<adiamas>	i feel like playing with sliders
<Zagor>	ah, you are talking about the simulators
<adiamas>	for volume control...
<Bagder>	...we should add two mini icons for tracks and dirs for the dir browser on the recorder
<adiamas>	huh?
<Bagder>	browse a dir with your recorder
<Bagder>	whatch the little icons to the left of each row
<adiamas>	got ya...
<adiamas>	that's what im trying to figure out.. how to get stuff like that form the map
<Bagder>	currently, we'll have to add the hex-data manually for new widgets ;-)
<adiamas>	ack...
<adiamas>	the chartables.c file in firmware.. what does that cover again?
<Bagder>	fonts
<Bagder>	the three different fonts
<adiamas>	only fonts?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	Gary's code package had a widget.c file with some additional ones
<adiamas>	yeah.. going to look at that now
<Bagder>	btw, including the simulators, we now have 14341 lines of source code in the CVS ;-)
<adiamas>	hehe cool
<adiamas>	one more time.. what was the command to remove extra cr-lf?
<Bagder>	tr -d '\015' < infile > outfile
<adiamas>	ty
<adiamas>	does lcd_bitmap work?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	lcd_puts() uses it extensively
<adiamas>	k
<Zagor>	wasn't there a size limit?
<Bagder>	ah yes
<Bagder>	it only handles 16 pixels height, I believe
<adiamas>	holy christ.. finally got this working and the thing is huge :)
-->	wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
---	Bagder is now known as Bagder|eats
<--	Bagder|eats has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
*	Bagder fixes the simulated readdir() to return a dirent struct as the common/dir.h defines
<Linus>	Rockers
<Linus>	But maybe it should be the other way around?
<Bagder>	?
<Bagder>	you mean that the target readdir() should return a struct as the unixes use?
<Linus>	Exactly
<Bagder>	first off, the dirent struct seems to be different on various systems, but it also contains lots of crap we will never need/use
<Linus>	OK. Just a thought
<Bagder>	yes, would've made simulation easier ;-)
<Linus>	hehe. I think the target code should be the easy one...
<Bagder>	now, shall I make the code use this new stuff and thus break the win32 simulator? B-]
<Linus>	Of course. :-)
<Linus>	We donn't want no stinkin' windows!
<Bagder>	since they don't even have a native readdir(), this change is possibly even easier for them
<Linus>	Probably.
<Bagder>	gah, it broke on Solaris
<Bagder>	dirent is a pretty silly struct
<Bagder>	only one field is POSIX
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	i want to avoid stat()
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	I'll have the simulator use stat ;-)
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	could've even make both Linux and Solaris use the same dirent code so I'll write my own instead
<Bagder>	couldn't
*	Bagder gets all confused in his head with this
<Zagor>	get more coffee :)
<Bagder>	good idea!
*	Bagder bangs his head and runs for coffee
<Bagder>	ah, much better
<Bagder>	found problem
<Bagder>	phew
<Bagder>	seems to work now on both Linux and Solaris
<Zagor>	nicers
<Bagder>	made the tree.c code use it and it worked too
-->	jb1081 (~jb1081@lime.ircam.fr) has joined #rockbox
<Linus>	Hi jb!
<jb1081>	Hi
<jb1081>	Do you know if there's some hardware differences between 6000 & 5000 (got a 5000 few weeks ago)
<jb1081>	?
<Bagder>	a 5000!
<Zagor>	seems to be only a smaller disk
<Bagder>	does that have 5GB disk`?
<jb1081>	Bagder: yep
<Bagder>	odd
<Zagor>	jb1081: where did you buy it?
<Bagder>	I mean, that they have two products that similar
<jb1081>	Zagor: Europe (France)
<Zagor>	ok. it's a bit odd that they don't mention it on their web page. i've heard people on the us get them too
<jb1081>	firmware release 5.08, not listed in archos website (last time I checked at least)
<jb1081>	but the led & scroll mod works
<Zagor>	yes I think it's the exact same hardware but a cheaper disk
<Zagor>	how much price difference was it btwn the 5000 and 6000, do you know?
<jb1081>	6000 discontinued here, I think
<jb1081>	5000: 180 euro
<Bagder>	180 euro is quite a good price imho
<Zagor>	yes
<jb1081>	found in general distribution (food...) supermarket
<Zagor>	!
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	one cheese, two packets of milk and one archos please ;-)
<jb1081>	:)
<jb1081>	oh, does the 6000 (5000 is the same, I presume) have the remote control pin in the headphone jack?
<Zagor>	yes
<jb1081>	cool. Do you plan to use it?
<Zagor>	sure, we'll use it just like today; for remote control
<Zagor>	we also use it as a serial port for debugging
<jb1081>	ok, I was thinking you use serial port by hardware mod to line in jack
<Zagor>	yes, that's because the headphone jack only has the "receive" pin
<jb1081>	sure
<Zagor>	we need both receive and transmit for debugging
<Zagor>	but it's the same serial port
<jb1081>	ok
<jb1081>	it's 9600? TTL?
<Zagor>	yes
<jb1081>	just thinking about using an old pc keyboard controller to build a remote
<jb1081>	but it need a clock, no?
<Zagor>	yeah, we've been thinking that too. adding a keyboard would be cool! :)
<Zagor>	it's asynchronous rs232 so it doesn't need a clock pin
<jb1081>	yep, but a pc keyboard is synchronous, if I remember correctly
<Zagor>	oh, ok
<jb1081>	"The frequency of the clock signal typically ranges from 20 to 30 Khz".. :(
<jb1081>	ok, not with a broken kbd.. too bad
<Linus>	The serial port can use an external clock as well.
<Linus>	synchronous
<Zagor>	yes but then we need to modify the hardware
<jb1081>	yes, but we have to open the box..
<jb1081>	a broken serial mouse perhaps?
<Linus>	Yup. Otherwise you have to build a separate kbd->rs232 converter
<Linus>	I guess you can get one off-the-shelf actually
<jb1081>	did you see this somewhere (at a resonable price?)
<Linus>	i can't remember seeing any in recent years, no :-)
<PsycoXul>	kbd->rs232?
<PsycoXul>	you mean a ps2->serial adapter?
<jb1081>	ok.. :( btw what headphone do you use? somebody tried a in-ear phone?
<jb1081>	PsycoXul: I understood a complete remote, but I doubt now.. 
<Zagor>	yes, I use the Sony EX70. they are *GREAT*
<Bagder>	oh no, don't get him started on those again ;*)
<jb1081>	Zagor: ok, I was not sure between ex70 et Koss The Plug, it difficult to ear it before buying here
<jb1081>	it's
<jb1081>	Bagder: oups, I should'nt?
<Zagor>	Bagder: hehe
<Linus>	PsycoXul: Yes, a PS/2 to RS232 adapter
<jb1081>	Zagor: the phone amp has no problem to drive the EX70 properly?
<Zagor>	jb1081: no, quite the opposite...
<PsycoXul>	Linus: i've got a couple of those laying around i think ... heh
<PsycoXul>	they're still out there places i'm pretty sure
<Linus>	Do you know where to biy one?
<Linus>	buy
<PsycoXul>	the ones i've got came with mice/keyboards a couple years ago i think
<Linus>	Oh
<PsycoXul>	look on ebay, computer stores, google heh
<jb1081>	found one but a little too big.. :) http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/PS2SER/ps2ser.html
---	calpefrosch|away is now known as calpefrosch
<calpefrosch>	hi, just read the lines of today...
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	I just posted to the list too about it
<calpefrosch>	and I saw some stuff like "stinkin windows" ;-)
*	Bagder points at Linus and looks innocent
<calpefrosch>	so, I think I#ll have to fix the win32 sim ?
<Bagder>	yeps
<Bagder>	should be pretty easily done
<calpefrosch>	yes, but I have not much time the next days. 
*	calpefrosch looks out in the sun
*	Zagor spots another have-a-lifer :)
<calpefrosch>	hehe
<Bagder>	we got a mail from another volountary win32 hacker just yesterday... :-)
<calpefrosch>	who?
<Bagder>	eh, "Christian" ;-)
<Bagder>	Zagor: you replied to him yet?
<Zagor>	not yet
<calpefrosch>	cool. maybe I'll look at the code tomorrow. what do you think about the "scrolling" ? Is it usefull?
<Bagder>	we need scrolling
<Bagder>	I haven't tried it yet though ;-)
<calpefrosch>	isn't there a scrolling bar at the archos firmware? 
<Bagder>	yes there is
<Bagder>	on the left side
<calpefrosch>	mhhh, so we have to scan the dir first to see how much is in there
<Bagder>	I bet people will want one of those
<Bagder>	I'm afraid we'd need to do that, yes
<calpefrosch>	ok, we have a works meeting now. cu
<Bagder>	see ya
<Linus>	cu!
<--	calpefrosch has quit ("bin bals zurück")
<Bagder>	bin bals? ;-)
*	Bagder is gonna pretend he has a life now!
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	chris1 (~flanz@62.132.155.14) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	hi chris!
<chris1>	Björn by sourcfor. name is "flanz"
<Zagor>	ok
-->	elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
<elinenbe>	hello there.
<Zagor>	chris1: you're addded
<chris1>	the ata-sim code will only work on Images on disk, I want to add support to read realtime the Sectors from the Archos HD in the UISimulator
<Zagor>	hi elinenbe
<Zagor>	chris1: we already do that.
<Zagor>	look at ata-sim.c in test/ata
<--	elinenbe has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
-->	elinenbe (~chatzilla@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	chris1: but it's not really useful for the simulator, since it will use high-level APIs for all disk operations
<chris1>	this line "file=fopen("disk.img","r+");" say me , the code work on a pre create disk image.
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	I copy data from a real FAT32 disk into a image file and then use it for testing
<chris1>	ok your a right. With the image your need not to connect the RockBox to the USB port while the debuging session :)
<elinenbe>	how is the progress coming?
<Zagor>	the MAS DMA code is coming along, although it will not be as pretty as we hoped
<Zagor>	the ATA code is bugging, and I'm trying to figure out why
<Zagor>	and right now I'm writing open/close/read for basic file access
<elinenbe>	blah pretty... shmitty... who needs pretty code?
<Zagor>	well it's not just the code, more the design. we'll need to poll a pin every millisecond. we hoped to be able to get an interrupt for that instead
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	but it's not a major problem, just a nuicance
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	bleh, my brain hurts. read() gets too complex.
<Bagder>	drink coffee! ;-)
*	Bagder returns an advice ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	I'll go and make food now, see ya
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor_>	strange happenings...
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<chris1>	ok here in Berlin/EU  is al lite release party inhouse.I have to go. 
<--	chris1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)
<Zagor>	i'm off. see you later.
<--	Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
-->	Zagor (~bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	calpefrosch|away (calpefrosc@p5082C815.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #rockbox
<elinenbe>	hello
<--	wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
-->	wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
---	ChanServ removes channel operator status from adiamas
<--	Zagor has quit ("bye")
<--	wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
-->	wavey (~wavey@host-54.valtech.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<--	elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:1.0.0+/20020507]")
<--	calpefrosch|away has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<--	wavey has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	evening
<adi|work>	afternoon :)
<Bagder>	:-)
<Linus>	moo
*	Bagder scrolls in the directory browser... wooo ;-)
-->	quiquee (~quique@217.8.197.89) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	hey
<quiquee>	hello everyone
<Bagder>	its a silent period in here right now
---	quiquee is now known as wannabeuihacker
*	Bagder giggles
<wannabeuihacker>	I have seen that the menu stuff assumes complete separation of player and recorder
<Bagder>	yes, but I did that mainly to get a player version that compiled and built
<Bagder>	for the simulator that is
<wannabeuihacker>	I added the menu functions and got a menu system for the player
<Bagder>	cool
<wannabeuihacker>	mostly copy and paste
<wannabeuihacker>	I guess it is the best solution for now
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	we'll see if we can merge stuff later on or if we'll keep them apart
<wannabeuihacker>	but the button right of the player is not working, any clue why ?
<wannabeuihacker>	I mean , when using the simulator
<Bagder>	the x11 one?
<wannabeuihacker>	yep
<Bagder>	weird, it should work
<Bagder>	when you get your code in, I can have a look
<wannabeuihacker>	I am trying to find out , how do I flush printf output ?
<Bagder>	fflush()
<wannabeuihacker>	ok I am doing something wrong then. 
<wannabeuihacker>	right button works
<wannabeuihacker>	my code doesn't
<Bagder>	heh
<wannabeuihacker>	fflush cores :? anyway
<wannabeuihacker>	I am trying to get used again to emacs and c
<Bagder>	fflush(stdout); it should be
<wannabeuihacker>	hmm , thanks.
<Bagder>	or whatever stream you wanna flushs
<wannabeuihacker>	I didnt use it for 6 years now
<Bagder>	this is a perfect way to get back in shape ;-)
<wannabeuihacker>	do you use emacs ? would you happen to know how was to run make withing emacs without a need to open a shell buffer ?
<adi|work>	yeah...
<Bagder>	M-x compile
<wannabeuihacker>	shit , I thought it couldnt be that easy
<adi|work>	meta-s is a common bind for it...
<Bagder>	M-x global-set-key ;-)
<wannabeuihacker>	ok , it insists in running make from the ./uisimulator
<wannabeuihacker>	it would be a good idea to add a Makefile there
<Bagder>	right, it runs from the dir of the buffer you start it from
<wannabeuihacker>	I will have to read again the gdb info 
-wannabeuihacker/#rockbox-	panics
*	Bagder tries to paint a little icon for the files in the dir browser
<Bagder>	unfortunately, gimp doesn't output our format natively ;-)
<wannabeuihacker>	ok, it is working
<wannabeuihacker>	I plan to create a menu structure that is read in the future from an external file
<wannabeuihacker>	so people can customize it to whatever they want
<wannabeuihacker>	just an idea to start playing with it
<wannabeuihacker>	no plans to add an xml parser in the firmware, right ? ;)
<Bagder>	I don't think that'll be necessary, but we'll see
<Bagder>	hehe
<wannabeuihacker>	I am having a lot of fun with this, an excuse to go back to the roots. Thank you guys
<Bagder>	I think I speak for most of us when I say that we enjoy this a lot too
<wannabeuihacker>	it is contagious .
<wannabeuihacker>	going to have a nap now. cu soon
<Bagder>	see ya
<Linus>	The ATA code sure is full of bugs...I'm killing them by the dozen...:-)
*	Bagder hands Linus the fly squasher
<Linus>	How can you do sleep(HZ/500) when HZ is only 100???? :-O
<Bagder>	haha
<Bagder>	short sleep ;-)
<Linus>	And it's full of return -1 for error
<Linus>	when the code checks for 0
<adi|work>	heheheh
<Linus>	Well, it's starting to work now. I've read the boot sector.
<Bagder>	on target?
<Linus>	Yup
<Bagder>	rock
<Linus>	I wish Zagor was on the channel.
<Bagder>	hm, I think I have a little perl script now that can "fix" an xbm as saved by gimp, to become "rockbox" formatted
<Linus>	bango!
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	works
<Bagder>	now, what does a symbol for a directory look like? ;-)
<Linus>	Go figure
<Linus>	disk_init() finds the correct root partition now.
<Linus>	but readdir() fails miserably...
*	Bagder commtted his little icons
<Linus>	linus = sleep(until(6am));
<Linus>	bye
<Bagder>	night
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
<--	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has left #rockbox
<--	jb1081 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
*	adiamas pokes you all in the forehead
<miah>	ouch
<adiamas>	wuss
<miah>	yea
<miah>	im a wuss
<adiamas>	has anyone figured out why the remote does not work with the recorder?
-->	calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #Rockbox
<calpefrosch>	morning
<adiamas>	evening :)
<calpefrosch>	oh
<calpefrosch>	had a nice day ? ;-)
<adiamas>	heheheh quiet so far...
<adiamas>	but im on call till 0700... so ill tell you tomorrow :)
<calpefrosch>	it's tuesday on your side, right ?
*	calpefrosch goes for breakfast
---	calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|eats
<adiamas>	yeah... its actually wends now.
-->	Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	hey ho
<--	wannabeuihacker has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
-->	wannabeuihacker (~quique@217.8.197.187) has joined #rockbox
<--	PsycoXul has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
-->	PsycoXul (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-140.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #rockbox
<calpefrosch|eats>	hey Bagder
---	calpefrosch|eats is now known as calpefrosch
<Bagder>	mornning calpe
<calpefrosch>	The sim is running, where has it changed ?
<calpefrosch>	ahh, I have to fill the attribute
<Bagder>	exactly
<Bagder>	and size too preferably
-->	Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Bagder>	howdy Zagor_
---	Zagor_ is now known as Zagor
<Zagor>	i'm puzzled by linus' ata changes. they don't work for me
<Bagder>	odd
<Bagder>	he said he had a few problems
<Bagder>	but he could read a few things on target
<Zagor>	i guess he'll arrive soon
<Bagder>	yeah, he got to bed early :-P
<Bagder>	surely before 1 am...
<Zagor>	normally, I'd boo him too :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	I kinda like being the one who says good night when he leaves and good morning when he arrives back again ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	btw, we probably will end up needing a malloc() sooner or later, don't we?
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	I thought I'd have a go at that
<Zagor>	we get a malloc with newlib, if only we supply sbrk(). but I like your malloc, so go ahead :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	uh
<Bagder>	wannabeuihacker has a little menu app written for the player now
<Bagder>	he said yesterday
<Zagor>	ah, cool
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: any plans on making the win32 simulator work as a Player?
*	Bagder runs for more coffee
<calpefrosch>	ok, sim is fixed.
<Bagder>	ain't my icons beautiful? ;-)
<calpefrosch>	I love it
<calpefrosch>	Bagder: yeah, I can try to made a player. But, as you know, I'm not good in VC++
<calpefrosch>	It would last a bit
<Bagder>	well, maybe some of the other guys could help out on that part too
<calpefrosch>	yes. Another question...
<calpefrosch>	I get an error in id3.c that header is not initialized
<Bagder>	which line?
<calpefrosch>	351
<Bagder>	that's a good warning
<Bagder>	it should be set to 0
<calpefrosch>	do you commit in cvs ?
<Bagder>	I'll do it, I fixed another thing too
<adiamas>	Bagder what is is the menu app that wannabeuihacker worked on .. do you know?
<Bagder>	it's written specificly for the player, that's about all I know
<Bagder>	the one we have now is recorder-specific
<adiamas>	nod
<adiamas>	btw.. bagder.. perhaps its time to start getting togeather an icons.h file?
<Bagder>	yes
<adiamas>	where did you put your icons?
<Bagder>	both a icons.c and an icons.h
<Bagder>	it's in the tree.c file
<Bagder>	they're
<adiamas>	im adding icons.h right now.
<Bagder>	feel free to give my icons better names
<adiamas>	should we rename "fileimage" to  "fileicon" ?
<Bagder>	yes
<adiamas>	those are 6x8 right?
*	Bagder nods
<adiamas>	will the player use icons?
<Bagder>	it a limited extent
<Bagder>	in a
<adiamas>	okay...
<adiamas>	just wondering if i was going to #defin around it
<Bagder>	but hardly the same ones
<adiamas>	nods
<adiamas>	anyone have an issue with the function name "get_6x8_bitmap_icon"
<adiamas>	or would you rather refernce the array directly?
<Bagder>	I prefer referencing the array directly
<Bagder>	no reduce all overhead
<Bagder>	to reduce
<adiamas>	that case.. any prob is all 6x8 icons are in an array with the subscripts as enums?
<Bagder>	Dave posted a good idea
<adiamas>	haveing X # of icons is annoying...
<adiamas>	havn'et seen it yet
<adiamas>	which part of the idea did you like?
<Bagder>	storing short names in memory
<adiamas>	well.. i don't know if i agree with his "just 16 chars"
<adiamas>	and the short name... dunno if i like that either.
<Bagder>	why not?
<adiamas>	i store my mp3s as "artist - song name.mp3"
<Bagder>	it's a memory internal thing
<adiamas>	so, stuff like "Les miserable - Curtan call" or whatever.. it doesn't help me on the dir listing
<Bagder>	right, but we haven't solved that issue yet
<adiamas>	right...
<adiamas>	i guess i just don't get what his suggestion is attempting to solve
<Bagder>	I'd prefer having a way to strip off the current directory's name from the local files or something
<Bagder>	you need to check the tree.c source to see what is aiming at ;-)
<Bagder>	what he is
<Bagder>	it currently stores the full names in memory
<Bagder>	and displays the 16 first letters
<adiamas>	i agree that we strip the dir structure..t hat just makes sense...
<adiamas>	but limiting the filename that cane be displayed.. dunno if i agree with that.
<Bagder>	thus, the displaying and the storing in memory are two parts
<adiamas>	If so, the buffer in tree.c just needs to 
<adiamas>	store the short name (for accessing the file) and the first 16 characters of 
<adiamas>	the full name (for display on the screen).
<adiamas>	16 chars is _not_ enough space for display
<adiamas>	thats what im getting at
<Bagder>	I get it
<Bagder>	but the full name shouldn't be needed either in all cases
-->	wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox
<adiamas>	anything internal.. hell we index however we want..
<adiamas>	then when do you get it?
<adiamas>	if not when you do a dir listing?
<Bagder>	the full name stored for diplaying doesn't need to be the full file name
<Bagder>	it could be modified to look better
<adiamas>	define "look better"
<Bagder>	stripping off  redundant parts for example
<adiamas>	but "Beat on the brat.mp3"
<adiamas>	is good..
<adiamas>	that i agree..
<Bagder>	like I have "artist/artist - tune 1.mp3"
<adiamas>	but if you stop me from displaying my file "Les Miserables - Javier at the gates of the city.mp3", ill slap you silly
<adiamas>	:)
<Bagder>	then showing the dir in 'artisy' could cut off 'artist -' for me
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	well
<Bagder>	you still can't show that full length on each line
<adiamas>	i agree.. any directory struct stuff should not be shown
<adiamas>	sure you can.. it's called scroll :)
<Bagder>	you wanna scroll all lines?
<adiamas>	no.. only current selected line.. as you page through...
<Bagder>	right
<adiamas>	but if you only get the ful name when you cursor over it...
<Bagder>	but then you don't need to store the full name in memory
<adiamas>	you are going to be spinning up and down the drive constantly
<adiamas>	sure you do
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	true
<adiamas>	now.. we can make alterations.. say.. ".mp3" can be dropped..
<adiamas>	and all directory structure...
<adiamas>	that i fully agree..
<adiamas>	oh.. and another suggestion.. you should not be able to try and play _non_ mp3 files
<adiamas>	i use my archos for data backup as well.. and my gf tried to 'play' "Oracle8"
<adiamas>	hehehe
<Bagder>	hehe
<adiamas>	play didn't like that much
<Bagder>	was it good? ;-P
<adiamas>	id rather display "Not an mp3" or something when you select it...
<adiamas>	and it's easy enough a check to do when you select a file to play
<adiamas>	Bagder wanna do me a favor?
<Bagder>	sure
<adiamas>	could i mail you this icons.h and tree.c for the uisim.. 
<adiamas>	let me know if the idea makes sense?
<adiamas>	it works.. just dont wanna set bad precident
<Bagder>	sure, fire away
<adiamas>	so no reasont to check it in
<PsycoXul>	i think it should do something specific to the filetype whenever it can, even if its something simple, and some simple thing for whatever unknown things
<PsycoXul>	eg you "play" a text file it shows it to you
<Bagder>	and if you play a HTML file ... *g*
<PsycoXul>	heh
*	Bagder grins
<PsycoXul>	yes so when are we getting the modem driver for the serial port?
<adiamas>	lol
<Bagder>	uh, that'll be after I'm done with the apache port
<PsycoXul>	hehe
<adiamas>	bag, sent
<Bagder>	gotem
*	adiamas thinks you should all read quesiton # 17 on the FAQ
<Bagder>	adiamas: I like that approach, I only have some nits
<PsycoXul>	oh yeah btw
<PsycoXul>	Q18. I don't see you mentioning ogg files on your list of ideas.  What about
<PsycoXul>	     supporting those?
<PsycoXul>	that question kinda seems odd when right within the same page you can see
<PsycoXul>	- Support playing of other files types (ie: Ogg Vorbis support)
<PsycoXul>	in said list of ideas
<Bagder>	adiamas: the array should be in the icons.c file, and the icons.h should have the enums and the array "extern"
<adiamas>	well.. thats why i was planning on having the calling function to get the array
<adiamas>	having externs all over the place is nasty
<adiamas>	but thats just my opinion...
<adiamas>	ill set it up your way and we can argue later :)
<Bagder>	:-)
<adiamas>	and i couldn't come up with a better name then that :)
<Zagor>	having extern in .h files is not nasty
<Zagor>	only in .c files
<adiamas>	your right...
