**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 16 22:16:35 2002

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---	Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28
---	You are now known as adi|home
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<dw|gone>	Hellö ppl!
---	dw|gone is now known as dwihno
<Bagder>	morning
<dwihno>	How are you today?
<Bagder>	pretty good
<Bagder>	loadsa mails to deal with
<dwihno>	"Free XXX"
<dwihno>	"Get bigger dick with our magic pills"
<dwihno>	"Debt consolidation"
<Bagder>	more like "how do I make this work?" kinds
<Bagder>	the spams are mostly filtered automaticly
<dwihno>	You work as a consultant?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	but the mails are mostly about my spare time hacks
<dwihno>	what kind of consultant?
<Bagder>	embedded, network, unix
<dwihno>	Oh
<dwihno>	Sounds like a fun job :)
<Bagder>	been working for Net Insight the least 2+ years
<Bagder>	oh it _is_ a great job
<dwihno>	I've been unemployed for almost a year :(
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<Bagder>	ugha
<Linus>	uuh
<dwihno>	Good morning Linus-dude! :D
<Bagder>	hey Linus the rocker!
<Linus>	morning d00d!
<Bagder>	you're early
<dwihno>	Bagder: Yeah, it sucks, but I'm not giving up - I write applications almost every day
<Linus>	Yup. Have to go early today
<Bagder>	dwihno: that's probably the sane thing to do
*	Linus goes for coffee
<dwihno>	:-)
*	dwihno .equals(sane)
<dwihno>	*yawn*
<dwihno>	I hate cooking lunch in the morning
<dwihno>	<-- did some pretty nice chicken salad
<Linus>	what do you guys think we should do about the GDB enabled version of librockbox?
<Linus>	and the release version?
<Linus>	multiple targets in the makefile?
<Linus>	or multiple libraries?
<Bagder>	good q
<Bagder>	my opinion: multiple targets, the same library
<Linus>	OK. next q:
<Linus>	should thread.c malloc() the stack, or should we have static stacks for the threads?
<Linus>	not a big issue, really. Just thinking.
<Bagder>	I doubt that we'll realloc() the stack so a static is slightly better
<Linus>	ok
<Linus>	we need special compiler flags for some files, like thread.o
<Linus>	how do we do that without messing with the dependencies?
<Bagder>	that's the downside of all those wildcard things
<dwihno>	<-- loves wildcards
<Bagder>	the thread.o should have its own line in the makefile, with its own additional flags on the compile line
<Linus>	Bagder: indeed
<Linus>	What does Make do when thread.o has two targets?
<Bagder>	it yells
<Linus>	gah
<Linus>	So what do we do
<Bagder>	thread.o must be removed from the wildcard-generated list
<dwihno>	Some shell script generating the makefile's perhaps?
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<Bagder>	I bet there is some keyword that allows us to cut out a specific file from the SRC generated list
<Linus>	Bagder: Yeah. I guess we have to do that. It's a pity.
<Bagder>	SRC = $(filter tread.c, $(SRC))
<Bagder>	SRC = $(filter-out tread.c, $(SRC))
<Bagder>	rather
<Bagder>	btw
<Bagder>	Linus: do you know why the Recorder doesn't allow music to be played while charging the batteries?
<dwihno>	It doesn't?! :(
<Bagder>	at least I haven't been able to make it ;-)
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	You probably forgot connecting it to the PC ;)
<dwihno>	Do you develop using linux or windows?
<Bagder>	there is only one ;-)
<Bagder>	Linux
<Bagder>	and Solaris too actually
<dwihno>	okay
<dwihno>	USB on solaris?
<dwihno>	Did you ever try a BSD variant?
<Bagder>	I don't need usb to develop
<Bagder>	we have simulators, remember
<dwihno>	aaah
<dwihno>	the Simulator(tm) :D
<Bagder>	yes, I've tried BSD variants
<dwihno>	so what did you think?
<Bagder>	about what?
<Bagder>	BSD?
<dwihno>	yeah
<dwihno>	and how much of a difference is there between the simulator and the real hardware?
<Bagder>	the simulators simulate the "low-level" APIs, so we can write "apps" on them
<Bagder>	the BSDs are generally fine, in some areas great, in some not so great
<dwihno>	Please go on :)
<Linus>	Bagder: Zagor does it all day (listening while charging)
<Bagder>	hm
<Linus>	I tried just now. What is your problem?
<Linus>	You have to push "on"
<Linus>	puch and hold
<Bagder>	while charging?
<Linus>	just like when you turn it on normally
<dwihno>	So what linux distributions are you guys using+
<Linus>	Red Hat
<Linus>	I wanted to install Debian, bit it kind of backfired on me
<Bagder>	ah ok
<Bagder>	I just didn't press long enough
<dwihno>	How about you Bagder?
<Linus>	He is an old red hat
<Bagder>	once upon the time redhat
<dwihno>	/\
<Bagder>	source since
<Linus>	patched as hell
<dwihno>	/\
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	that's my hat ;)
<Bagder>	$ telnet localhost
*	adi|home slaps you all with the "be quiet im tring to sleep" stick
<Bagder>	Trying 127.0.0.1...
<Bagder>	Connected to localhost.
<Bagder>	Escape character is '^]'.
<Bagder>	Storebror Linux What Hasn't Crashed Yet Soon Will
<Bagder>	Kernel 2.4.18 on an i686
<Bagder>	login:
<Bagder>	:-)
<dwihno>	Telnet rules
<Bagder>	you tring huh? ;-)
<adi|home>	telnet SUCKS
<adi|home>	ssh is god
<adi|home>	i have issues with plain text
<Bagder>	telnet is fine on localhost ;-)
<adi|home>	or "here, sniff my password"
<adi|home>	bah, humbug
<adi|home>	i wouldn't trade the ease of use of scp and ssh for anything
<dwihno>	ssh is good
<dwihno>	and cute
<Linus>	what do we prefer:
<Linus>	make DEBUG=1
<Linus>	or
<Linus>	make debug
<adi|home>	make debug
<Bagder>	the latter
<Linus>	ok
<adi|home>	cause its like comparing to "make CLEAN=1"
<adi|home>	:)
<Bagder>	yeah
<Linus>	not really. clean is a target, DEBUG is more like an option
<adi|home>	have we reached any sort of decision on how apps/ is going to be set up?
<Linus>	debug affects the compiler flags
<adi|home>	no, id treat debug as a target too..
<Bagder>	adi|home: hehe, not really, but I think we go for all "general" files in the root with target-specific code in subdirs, for now
<adi|home>	doing LINUX or SOLARIS .. those id accept at =1
<adi|home>	k
*	adi|home needs to get back into the swing of things
<Bagder>	but I don't know why Björn didn't move all the app code from uisimulator to apps
<adi|home>	if you want me to just switch everything over i can.. but i don' see a need to yet really
<Bagder>	there's no immediate need, no, I just thought it'd be cleaner
<Bagder>	when we wanna start building target stuff using the apps
<Linus>	Bagder: how do i change CFLAGS in a target?
<Bagder>	ehum
<Bagder>	you don't
<Linus>	Hence my question above
<Bagder>	well, in a sane makefile you have a differently named variable for that  then
<Linus>	and no default rules?
<Linus>	Here we go
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	or rather
<Bagder>	you'd use different object files
<Linus>	oh no
<Bagder>	oh yes ;-)
<Linus>	Then we are in depoendency hell
<Bagder>	not necessarily
<Bagder>	DBGOBJS := $(SRC:%.c=debug/%.o) crt0.o
<Bagder>	or however you write that kind of stuff
<Bagder>	or perhaps not
<Bagder>	using default rules really ain't fine here
<Linus>	The seldom are
<Bagder>	and totally unnecessary since we generate the deps anyway
<Bagder>	we can just as well generate the action line too
<Linus>	I see the Makefile growing
<Bagder>	sure
<Bagder>	but it needs to do good
<Bagder>	a small bad makefile is worse than a big good one
*	adi|home pets the Makefile.. "good makefile.. you grow.. big.. strong makefile.. strong like bull"
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<Bagder>	more coffee
<Linus>	I would prefer writing "make DEBUG=1" instead of having a more complex makefile/dependency generation
<Bagder>	it'll work for now at least
<dwihno>	make -f Makefile.debug
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	I received a poem by mail this morning:
<Bagder>	fooled dad added cable
<Bagder>	failed decode doc called aid
<Bagder>	official bill baffled
<Bagder>	supposed to be almost Haiku, and it is...
<Bagder>	hexadecimal ;-)
<dwihno>	haha
<Bagder>	00000000 f0 01 ed da da dd ed ca b1 e0
<Bagder>	00000013 fa 11 ed de c0 de d0 cc a1 1e da 1d
<Bagder>	0000002b 0f f1 c1 a1 b1 11 ba ff 1e d0
<dwihno>	Writing hexadecimal poetry goes in the top20 of the "what to do on a rainy day" list :)
<Bagder>	indeed
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<calpefrosch|work>	morning
<Bagder>	morning calpe
<Linus>	morning Froggy
*	calpefrosch|work quacks
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*	Bagder greets StarFox welcome
<StarFox>	hello Bagder
*	StarFox is trying out some new themes
<Linus>	hi starfox
<StarFox>	hello Linus
<Bagder>	StarFox: you an Archos owner?
<StarFox>	no
<Linus>	This is only for club members. :-)
<Linus>	haha
<Bagder>	hey
<Bagder>	there's no rockbox available yet anyway ;-)
<Linus>	No, but it's close now
<dwihno>	Will the LCD-off feature be in the first releases?
<Linus>	Bagder: can you check the makefile changes for me?
<Bagder>	the very first release is for the player
<Linus>	I haven't written a MAS driver for the Recorder yet
<Bagder>	Linus: yes, that makefile looks fine
<Bagder>	does it work? ;-)
<dwihno>	Ah, okay
<Linus>	Good. Zagor will probably have some wierd comments on it :-)
<Linus>	Bagder: yes it works :-)
<Bagder>	oh he will
<Bagder>	Zagor the code police will strike down ;-)
<Bagder>	we need to join the rebel forces
*	dwihno can hear the "boot sound" in his head: "R-r-r-rockbox - Open Source kickass firmware"
<Linus>	Yeah. He's a badass moddafacka Code Cop
*	Bagder is scared of the code police force
<StarFox>	brb
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<Linus>	oops
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<Bagder>	hey Zagor_
<Zagor_>	hi
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<Linus>	oh no! the police! run!
*	Bagder ducks
<dwihno>	:D
<dwihno>	GOOD MORNING ZAGOR! :D
<dwihno>	Zagor: Linus has been here all day long, did you have a sovmorgon? :)
<Zagor>	yeah
<dwihno>	:-)
<dwihno>	Zzzagor ;)
*	Bagder is gonna go and have some nice shots now!
<dwihno>	Shots?
<dwihno>	This early? :)
<Bagder>	as in needles
<Bagder>	vaccine
---	Bagder is now known as Bagder|gone
<dwihno>	Vaccine for what?
<Bagder|gone>	I dunno ;-) I'll find out!
<Bagder|gone>	I'm going to east africa this summer
<dwihno>	Ah
<dwihno>	Then I know which vaccine you are getting
<dwihno>	Insanity neutralizer ;)
<dwihno>	Nobody sane would ever go to africa
<dwihno>	All sick mosquitos and rhinos and giraffs... That's scary stuff dude! :)
<Linus>	Uganda?
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<Zagor>	still alive, bagder? ;)
<dwihno>	We are alive
<dwihno>	(Paul van Dyk)
<dwihno>	:-)
<Bagder>	I got away pretty good ;-)
<Bagder>	not a single shot
*	dwihno gives everybody some newly baked bullar
<Bagder>	had them all already ;-)
<Bagder>	mainly just Malaria poison needed
*	Bagder thinks ispell-complete-word rocks hard
*	Bagder detects trouble
<dwihno>	find / -type trouble
<Bagder>	gaaah
<Bagder>	May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: exiting (due to assertion failure)
<dwihno>	hm
<dwihno>	named must not be stopped!
<Bagder>	correctomente
<dwihno>	What version of named?
<Bagder>	wait, gotta fix this first
<dwihno>	mkay
<Bagder>	weirness
<Bagder>	weirdness
<Linus>	oh
<Bagder>	named starts from inetd mostly
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<dwihno>	fishy
<dwihno>	><))))8>
<Bagder>	May 17 10:46:22 pm1 named[27762]: message.c:808: REQUIRE(*rdataset == 0) failed
*	Bagder goes debugging
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<Zagor>	gah!
*	Zagor notes the bjorn.haxx.se http access log has grown to 460 MB since december
<dwihno>	oh my god! :/
<dwihno>	<-- tries to hide his DOS attack with some vanilla sauce
*	Zagor shops for a good log analyzer
<dwihno>	Denial of Sås
<dwihno>	We got analog
<Zagor>	is it good?
<dwihno>	then webalizer
<dwihno>	analog is extremely configurable
<dwihno>	webalizer produces nice graphs ;D
<Zagor>	i'll try analog
<Bagder>	I moved lots of files from the sim dir to the apps dir
<Bagder>	and made the x11-simulator build again, both versions
<Zagor>	nice
<Bagder>	updated the activity too with the new paths
<dwihno>	Do you have a slogan for the Rockbox project yet?
<Bagder>	"its better to rock a box than to box a rock"
<Bagder>	:-P
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	box a rock?! :)
<dwihno>	No fun
<Zagor>	we don't need no steeenkin slogan :)
<dwihno>	:~(
<dwihno>	So what can I contribute with to the project?
<dwihno>	ascii art? :)
<Zagor>	haha
<dwihno>	Seriousley
<dwihno>	I want to contribuyte
<dwihno>	I can make new games :)
<Zagor>	fire away. asteriods is still unclaimed :)
<dwihno>	hehe
<dwihno>	Tell me about the development environment and the test software you are using :)
<Zagor>	have you read the API file?
<dwihno>	I have ZERO files
<dwihno>	Except from JPEG's ;D
<Zagor>	go browse the cvs
<Zagor>	http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/cvs.html
<Zagor>	180603 hits in /rockbox/ :)
<Zagor>	plus another 30209 in /jukebox/
<dwihno>	juckbox :)
<dwihno>	On monday I will place my order for a recorder! :D
<Bagder>	that's the spirit! ;-)
<dwihno>	Oh
<dwihno>	I just found out monday is a day off
<Bagder>	yeps
<dwihno>	Luckily I found out it now, or I would have been here on monday morning :)
<Bagder>	http://daniel.haxx.se/hexpoetry/goodies.html
<Zagor>	yay!
<Bagder>	it seems people keep busy with useful things ;-)
<dwihno>	hahaha
<dwihno>	mongo :)
<dwihno>	baddade blodad collie
<dwihno>	fifflade labile olof
<dwihno>	haha
<Zagor>	we should separate the player and recorder code, and not have everything in apps/ root
<Zagor>	icons, bmp, tetris, screensaver etc
<Bagder>	true
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<Bagder>	hi daev
<Bagder>	dave
<linuxstb>	Hi - what happenning to the CVS? :-)
<Bagder>	haha
<Bagder>	we move sources into apps that are meant for target and simulator
<Bagder>	to have the uisimulator for simulator stuff only
<linuxstb>	I think that's a good thing.  When do you think you will be finished?
<Bagder>	dunno, we just discussed putting the recorder-specific files in their own subdir in apps
<linuxstb>	OK, I'll hang around here and see what happens.  I'm still working at the moment, but was distracted by the CVS action.
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<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	don't expect any more work from my side today, I'm busy elsewhere atm
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<Zagor>	i'll be getting the simulator working with player keypad
<Zagor>	then I plan to test it on target tonight
<Bagder>	right on!
<Zagor>	and polish some of the remaining issues like key polling etc
<Zagor>	friday candy time
<Bagder>	lots of adding and deleting today ;-)
<Zagor>	yeah. cvs history is for wimps! :)
<Bagder>	we don't want the history, we want the future! ;-)
<Zagor>	hrmpf. the simulator doesn't work without lcd_update
<Zagor>	who do I yell at? ;)
*	Bagder hides
<Zagor>	where is sim_lcd_puts defined? it's not in any .h .c. or .s file!?!
<Bagder>	magic
<Bagder>	its in lcd-x11.c
<Bagder>	because it is #define d
<Bagder>	so the names in the file don't have sim_ prefixes
<Zagor>	where is it defined?
<Bagder>	x11/chardef.h
<Bagder>	that construction is a bit ugly
<Bagder>	but I saw no way around it
<Bagder>	sim_lcd_puts should just do lcd_update() by itself
<Zagor>	but those defines are the other way. they define lcd_puts, not sim_lcd_puts
<Zagor>	i'm confused
<Zagor>	ah, oh.. bluearch!
<Zagor>	damn, bagder. that's UUUUGLY! :-)
<Bagder>	you make it better then
<Bagder>	the problem is that it needs *both* lcd systems when simulating the player
<Zagor>	explain it to me, what problem are you solving?
<Zagor>	hmm
<Bagder>	the player simulator uses the recorder-simultor code
<Bagder>	for char output
<Zagor>	right
<Zagor>	gotta go. see you guys later
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<Bagder>	bye
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<elinenbe>	Under news on the main page there have been no updates for more than 2 weeks.  Maybe it is time to place a little updat there ;)
<Zagor>	any suggestions?
<linuxstb>	I don't know any news, but is it possible to upload some more IRC logs (if they exist)?
<elinenbe>	something like "The project is prgessing nicely and we offering a $10,000 (USD) prize in the DSP programming challenge... stay tuned for more information"
<Zagor>	hehe
<linuxstb>	:-)
<Zagor>	that reminds me, i should submit a help request to sourceforge
<linuxstb>	What is on the wishlist for DSP programming?
<linuxstb>	(apart from ogg)
<elinenbe>	wma :)
<elinenbe>	just kidding
<elinenbe>	how powerful is the DSP?
<linuxstb>	I think the only sensible "wish" is uncompressed recording and playback.
<Zagor>	pure WAV is a frequent request
<elinenbe>	that is something that many people ask for.
<elinenbe>	and with the recorder -- pur wav recording
<linuxstb>	And it shouldn't be too difficult to program - if you know the hardware.
<elinenbe>	is it possible to compile the source and run something on the actual player yet?
<Zagor>	i'm working on that right now
<Zagor>	having a bit of setup problems, for some reason
<linuxstb>	Good luck - that's worth an entry in the news if you succeed.
<elinenbe>	well, if you get something working do you think you will upload the compiled firmware?
<Zagor>	sure
<elinenbe>	how far away do you think you are?
<elinenbe>	this is quite exciting.
<Zagor>	oh, not far. this is all tested code, it's just some snag
<linuxstb>	Changing the subject, I want to implement the mpeg playing API for the X11 simulator tonight...
<Zagor>	the problem is my gf is coming over in just over an hour :)
<elinenbe>	are the simulators pretty much stable right now?
<linuxstb>	... but am not sure where to put the files.
<elinenbe>	well, priorities are priorities
<Zagor>	linuxstb: why not in the x11 lib?
<Zagor>	directory, i mean
<elinenbe>	where do you live?  Sweden?
<Zagor>	yes
<elinenbe>	so, it is 8pm there?
<linuxstb>	Zagor: OK, but how should I stop it breaking the win32 simulator and the target?
<Zagor>	the irc logs are adiamas' job, btw. i'm not sure why there hasn't been any checkins of those lately
<elinenbe>	you should NOT go waste your time with Star Wars.  The movie is awul
<elinenbe>	awful
<elinenbe>	I dont even know if you have it yet
<Zagor>	linuxstb: you can't keep win32 working. don't meddle with the target files yet
<linuxstb>	Zagor: are you asking me to wait before implementing it?
<Zagor>	in target, yes. add it to the simulator only right now
<linuxstb>	I thought the target and simulator shared the same code (apps/)?
<Zagor>	some of it, yes. make a local copy of you want to test. I'm working in apps right now
<linuxstb>	OK - no problem.
<linuxstb>	I'll let you get back to your Archos now.  Bye.
<Zagor>	:) no problem
<Zagor>	i can't get the player lcd to work :*(
<elinenbe>	I cry with you
<elinenbe>	:`(
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<Zagor>	ooooh, I'm browsing my archos!
<Zagor>	but only with debugf()s :)
<Zagor>	anyone alive here, feeling like testing my app?
<Zagor>	i'm starting to wonder if my lcd lives at all
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<Zagor>	well, gotta go. bye all
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<adi|work>	anyone around?
<PsycoXul>	no
<adi|work>	okay :)(
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 19 13:32:25 2002

