**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Apr 26 05:32:08 2002

-->	adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-95.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox
---	Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
*	adiamas heads off to bed now that logging works
<Zagor>	good night
---	You are now known as adi|asleep
*	Bagder heads off for the lunch meeting
---	Linus is now known as Linus|lunch
<adi|asleep>	is there any way to turn logging off on certain channels?
<adi|asleep>	in xchat
<adi|asleep>	grrr.. what did you guys break?
<adi|asleep>	tr: too many arguments
<adi|asleep>	Try `tr --help' for more information.
<adi|asleep>	cvs server: Pre-commit check failed
<adi|asleep>	cvs [server aborted]: correct above errors first!
<adi|asleep>	cvs commit: saving log message in /tmp/cvsoX6Lpv
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<wavey>	too busy at work :(
<wavey>	wanna code more for the rockster box :)
<calpefrosch>	me too
<wavey>	i have code to manage settings and an outline of the playlist func
<calpefrosch>	but I just started to get used to C
<wavey>	no better way to learn, cal :)
<calpefrosch>	hope so
<calpefrosch>	what do you do at work ß
<calpefrosch>	?
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<wavey>	i'm a java enterprise consultant
<calpefrosch>	he, cool. I want to make the Java Certified Prorammer this year.
<wavey>	cool. java's a lovely language
<wavey>	bit c is sexy :)
<wavey>	s/bit/but
<calpefrosch>	hmm, let's try to put JINI on the Jukebox ;-)
<calpefrosch>	I never did C before, so it's difficult for me to understand the code
<calpefrosch>	or JME
<calpefrosch>	and now to something completely different...
<calpefrosch>	is the code in the cvs ?
<wavey>	my code?
<wavey>	not yet
<calpefrosch>	can you send it to me ?
<wavey>	it'll go in today, hopefully. not much point seeing it now unless you're desperate?
<calpefrosch>	ok
<wavey>	what do you do at work?
<wavey>	java too?
<calpefrosch>	yes. I make PL/SQL with Oracle8i and some Java-Tools for our product that is written in java
<wavey>	cool. what company?
<calpefrosch>	look at www.empolis.com
<wavey>	oh, you make rubics cubes? :)
*	wavey chuckles
<calpefrosch>	no :-(
<wavey>	you're german then?
<wavey>	i'm listening to a german band on my archos as we speak :)
<wavey>	rammstein
<wavey>	i don't understand any of the words, but it's fantastic music anyhow :)
<calpefrosch>	yes, and the words are not important, you can believe me
<wavey>	you're a fan?
<calpefrosch>	which archos do you have ?
<wavey>	recorder
<calpefrosch>	not a fan, but I can listen to some songs. I have to recorder, too. And the firmware is running on it ? ( a bit )
<wavey>	i haven't put the code on the recorder yet
<wavey>	i don't trust it :)
<calpefrosch>	yeah, because of the hd-lock 
<wavey>	yus :)
---	Linus|lunch is now known as Linus
<calpefrosch>	Linus: did you try the firmware on a recorder ?
<Linus>	I haven't dared to... :-)
<Linus>	Büch dich!
<Linus>	(about the only Rammstein song I know)
<calpefrosch>	I think it's "Bück dich"
<Linus>	I suppose. Ich kann nicht deutsch sprechen.
<calpefrosch>	oh, that was very good. 
<calpefrosch>	I just read the lyrics, and it makes not much sense
<calpefrosch>	the song
<Zagor>	adi|asleep: you still awake?
<calpefrosch>	is he working at night, or living on the other side of the sea
<calpefrosch>	s/sea/world
<Zagor>	he's american
<calpefrosch>	ah
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*	Bagder yawns
<calpefrosch>	is the recorder display really 64 height, not 80 lines ?
<Bagder>	what makes you think it is 80?
<calpefrosch>	the simulator-windows is not full filled
<calpefrosch>	window
<Bagder>	the controller can only work with 65 pixels height
<calpefrosch>	hmmm, then the scale is not correct
<Bagder>	that's possible
<calpefrosch>	I'm working on that problem, tnx
---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to Zagor
---	Zagor gives channel operator status to Bagder
---	Zagor gives channel operator status to Linus
*	Zagor is bored :)
<wavey>	is the simulator's job to simulate the ui alone, or can it pretend to be the entire device, enabling us to compile our code against it and test it without putting the mod on the device itself?
<Zagor>	my desire is to get display, keys and filesystem simulation to work, primarily
<Zagor>	that's what we need to develop the UI
<wavey>	but those 3 parts are the entire device, save the music output.. 
<wavey>	which is good :)
<Zagor>	yup :)
<Zagor>	what I mean is that the simulator only has to simulate the highest-level APIs
<wavey>	yes
<wavey>	agreed
<wavey>	what are you working on right now?
<wavey>	doom.mod? ;)
<Zagor>	fat
<Zagor>	hehe, no i'm saving that for the weekend
<wavey>	hehe
<wavey>	is the fat hard to test?
<Zagor>	not so hard, actually
<wavey>	you testing it on linux or the device?
<Zagor>	i'm writing a simulated ATA layer
<Zagor>	on linux
<wavey>	aha. ok
<wavey>	can the makefile 'clean' target deal with subdirectories in the sameway that the SRC define is done?
<Zagor>	yes, but it doesn't right now
<wavey>	never seen:
<wavey>	SRC := $(wildcard drivers/*.c 
<wavey>	before
<Bagder>	its a gnu extension
<alkorr>	gmake
<wavey>	ok s'cool :)
<Zagor>	very useful
<wavey>	indeed :)
<alkorr>	there are others
<Bagder>	there are indeed lots of others
<wavey>	indeed there are indeed lots of others indeed
<alkorr>	just do under cygwin : "info -f /usr/info/make"
<alkorr>	and you will find a lot of things
*	wavey installs info
<wavey>	;)
<alkorr>	if you are not familiar with "info" : just place your cursor on a "*" to jump at the matching page 
<wavey>	i'm an emacs user :)
<alkorr>	to go back, press "u" (up)
<wavey>	but thanks :)
<alkorr>	okay :)
<alkorr>	see you (must eat now)
*	wavey tries to work out which package info is in within cygwin
*	wavey remembers emacs
*	wavey slaps his forehead
<Bagder>	M-x info
<Bagder>	:-)
---	Linus is now known as Linus|meeting
<calpefrosch>	does anybody know the simulator-code ?
<calpefrosch>	for win32 ?
<Bagder>	nope
<calpefrosch>	:-( , so I wait for edx
<Zagor>	he has duplicated the lcd code. i'll smack him for that :)
<Bagder>	hehe
<Bagder>	I extract all words from all my mp3 song titles now
<Zagor>	ah, how many?
<Bagder>	3009 files
<Bagder>	guess the most common words! ;-)
<Bagder>	"The"
<Bagder>	"Mix"
<Zagor>	umm, in your collection?
<Zagor>	"hate" ;)
<Zagor>	nah
<Bagder>	bwahaha
<Bagder>	Of of You I mix Love In A To You Remix to Me in remix My
<Bagder>	I should lowercase them
<Zagor>	yes
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<Bagder>	the: 259 times
<Bagder>	funny enough, on 259 hours of music
<Bagder>	one "the" per hour ;-)
<Bagder>	"distention" 4 times
<Bagder>	hehe
<Zagor>	how many different words?
<Zagor>	how many >once
<Bagder>	3106
<Bagder>	good q
<Zagor>	so it's one unique word per song? seems a bit high
<Bagder>	Number of words unsed more than once: 1027
<Zagor>	is that with lc ?
<Zagor>	lowercase
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	I'll have a look in the list...
<Zagor>	ah, your filenames include artist+album, right?
<Bagder>	this is only id3 tags
<Zagor>	so only song name?
<Bagder>	supposedly
<Zagor>	interesting
<Bagder>	"technophobybitstreamdreammix": 1 time
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	I thought the "unique words/song" would be much lower
<Bagder>	it seems correct, juding from the look of the list
<Bagder>	now, running this list with wavey's script, I wonder how large percentage we'll cover
<Bagder>	Total Length: 932753 seconds: 259:05:53
<Bagder>	Different artists: 302
<Bagder>	Number of files: 3009
<Bagder>	Number of files without id3 title: 183
<Zagor>	cool
<calpefrosch>	I must go now
<Zagor>	ok
<calpefrosch>	bye
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<wavey>	i'll check my perl script into the tools section :)
*	Bagder considers running a spell check on his id3 titles ;-)
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<Bagder>	hi edx
<edx>	hi
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---	ChanServ gives channel operator status to edx
<Zagor>	edx: you shouldn't copy the lcd code into your win32 lcd.c
<edx>	why?
<edx>	shall i link both files with it?
<Zagor>	yes, like the X11 simulator does
<Zagor>	compile the drivers/lcd with the SIMULATOR flag set
<edx>	ok
<Zagor>	then in win32/lcd.c just include the code that is win32 specific
<edx>	got it.
<Zagor>	you should probably rename it lcd-win32.c to avoid collision
<edx>	ill do that later - *away*
<Zagor>	ok
---	edx is now known as edx|away
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<elinenbe>	Hello.
<Zagor>	hi
<elinenbe>	How is the status coming?
<Zagor>	coming along nicely. did you see the new status matrix on the web page?
<elinenbe>	yeah -- that is nice.
<Zagor>	i'm working on the fat code right now
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<elinenbe>	Fat32?  I thought the fat16 code was finished?
<elinenbe>	I have a question about the File System code...
<elinenbe>	How does this work?  The files system is implememnted in the firmware? But what does the USB chip detect?
<alkorr>	?
<elinenbe>	What I mean is could you have an open interface to implement more file systems on the drive?
<alkorr>	for the moment no
<alkorr>	what are you speaking about ?
<elinenbe>	For isntace could a Mac user format it HFS+ and then the player could use it like that?
<alkorr>	about the filesystem or the chipset USB ?
<alkorr>	nope
<alkorr>	if you are speaking about arch*s firmware, nope
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<alkorr>	the chipset USB only services generic scsi transfers between the computer and the harddisk
<PsycoXul>	i think he's asking about the possibility of using other filesystems with the device with the opensource firmware in the future
<alkorr>	or ata transfers if you like
<PsycoXul>	elinenbe: i think the only thing is you'd have to have a small fat32 partition at the beginning for the ROM firmware to load the new firmware from the drive
<alkorr>	just a sec
<alkorr>	if you plan to read mp3 files with your jukebox on a non-fat32 partition, it is impossible 
<PsycoXul>	alkorr: impossible?
<PsycoXul>	alkorr: with why couldn't the firmware support other filesystems?
<alkorr>	but if you want to create a HFS+ on the harddisk knowing that your jukebox could not read it, yes you can
<alkorr>	but at your own risk
---	Linus|meeting is now known as Linus
<alkorr>	if you are speaking about rockbox which is in fact a software, not a firmware
<alkorr>	there still a possibility to handle any kind of filesystem
<alkorr>	's
<alkorr>	but it is not our priority
<elinenbe>	I see.
<PsycoXul>	heh
<elinenbe>	You can format it right now HFS+ and it will work fine as a portable hard drive for the Mac, but it will not work as a player.
<alkorr>	exactly
<alkorr>	unless some courageous people code a HFS+ filesystem for rockbox (when of course it would have features enough to compete against the firmware)
<alkorr>	for the moment it is too earlier :)
<Bagder>	can the USB-ATA access really handle other fses?
<elinenbe>	Mine is formatted as a QNX 4.x partition
<PsycoXul>	heh
<alkorr>	the purpose of that chipset is not to handle filesystem
<PsycoXul>	bagd: its in the manual and everything that you can format it different things.. just without mp3 player functionality
<Zagor>	Bagder: i've run ext2 on my archos
<Bagder>	ok, I get it
<Bagder>	that is not controlled in the archos end
<alkorr>	but to give to the computer the access on the harddisk
<alkorr>	that's all
<Bagder>	but still, the firmware reads the software from a fat32 filesystem
<alkorr>	yeah
<Bagder>	so that would at least be required
<elinenbe>	ah.... I see
<alkorr>	but that way there is nothing to have with the chipset USB
<Bagder>	right
<alkorr>	and yes we still need a first FAT32 partition
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<alkorr>	just to download our software
<Bagder>	yep
<alkorr>	unless you have a flash instead a rom and you can change the firmware in the flash
<alkorr>	of
<alkorr>	still very dangerous ;)
<Linus>	I'm curious. What are we talking about?
<alkorr>	someone was asking if other filesystems can be read
<Bagder>	we could replace the SH7034 with a PROM version and have our software PROMed! ;-)
*	Bagder ducks
<alkorr>	no i'm speaking about a software way to overwrite the flash
<alkorr>	without hardware mods
<Bagder>	isn't it a masked ROM version?
<alkorr>	i'm speaking about the external rom
<alkorr>	not the internal rom
*	Bagder is a bit out of his leage here
<Linus>	Bagder: the firmware is located in an external (flash) ROM.
<Bagder>	so what's in the internal rom?
<Linus>	I guess the code that sets up the oscillator stuff and some chip selects and stuff, to be able to execute from the flash.
<alkorr>	the internal rom would read the external rom and unscramble it
<alkorr>	if you used my digrom, the second file it produces comes from external rom and it is unreadable because it is indeed scrambled
<alkorr>	okay i explain
<alkorr>	my digrom creates two files
<alkorr>	the first is smaller and contains the internal rom
<alkorr>	the second is larger and contains the external rom
<alkorr>	the first is readable and has a vector table at the begining of the file
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<alkorr>	c u
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<wavey>	how close is the simulator to faking the device's filesystem? has that work started at all?
<Linus>	I'm pretty sure that the simulator only simulates the GUI.
<wavey>	today, maybe :)
<wavey>	we want to simulate the fs, the buttons and the lcd
<wavey>	so that our runtime code can be tested on a pc
<Zagor>	yep
<Zagor>	feel free to write it :)
<wavey>	i'll do so, once the playlist is complete
<wavey>	cos i'll need it to test the playlist :)
<Zagor>	actually, it's not much to write
<Zagor>	at least not on unix
<wavey>	that's the hope
<wavey>	or windows
<Zagor>	since we want to use POSIX api
<Zagor>	windows might need some stub code
<wavey>	yus
<wavey>	i have no idea why i'm specialising this dev in windows..
<wavey>	i -hate- windows
<Linus>	Actually, I think Windows has open(), close() and seek too.
<Zagor>	love, hate. there's a difference?
<wavey>	it certainly does with cygwin installed :)
<Zagor>	Linus: opendir and readdir too?
<Linus>	Getting philosophical here, eh?
<wavey>	heh
<Linus>	I guess so. Lemme check.
<wavey>	i've never used opendir. why not just use FILE *?
<wavey>	that's a silly q
<wavey>	but i mean
<wavey>	what operations does opendir give you 
<Zagor>	opendir is for reading the directory entries, not a file
<Linus>	it doesn't seem like Win32 has opendir() :-(
<Zagor>	i thought not
<wavey>	and that's not available from a file handle?
<wavey>	hmm
<Zagor>	a file handle lets you access a single file
<wavey>	it's been years since i did any fs operations in C
<Zagor>	opendir returns a dir handle
<wavey>	ok tnx
<Zagor>	then you do readdir(handle), which returns which files are available in the dir
<wavey>	i find it odd that i've never had to do that in C
<wavey>	java a million times..
<wavey>	weird
<Linus>	I haven't done that many times i C either.
<wavey>	see you later guys
<Zagor>	ok, bye
<Linus>	bye
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<Linus>	boo
<Bagder>	hey ho
<Bagder>	is everything done now? ;-)
<Linus>	Hacking FAT32 in 300mph
<Bagder>	nicers
<Bagder>	anything I can do to help on that?
<Linus>	No. You are lame. :-)
<Bagder>	heheh
<Linus>	Go awayt.
<Bagder>	you finally found out
<Bagder>	darned
*	Bagder hides in a corner
<Linus>	*slap*
<Zagor>	if ( bpb->bpb_fatsz16 ) {
<Zagor>	  printf("This is not FAT32. Go away!\n");
<Zagor>	  return -1;
<Zagor>	}
<Zagor>	this is all so far
<Zagor>	:*)
<Linus>	:-)
<Bagder>	;-)
<Linus>	Gotta go away! :-) CU!!!
<Linus>	quit
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<calpefrosch>	hi again
<Bagder>	rehi
<calpefrosch>	edx is away for long? Did he said something ?
<Bagder>	I don't know, I just recently got here myself and he hasn't said anything the last ~30 mins
<calpefrosch>	tnx
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<Bagder>	welcome home ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe, thanks
*	Zagor just realized ata-sim.c can actually work on real devices
<Zagor>	ln -s /dev/hda1 disk.img
<Zagor>	*voila*
<Bagder>	and does it work?
<Zagor>	I think I want to comment out ata_write_sectors() first, though :)
<Zagor>	haven't tried yet. it should
<Zagor>	me needs food...
<Bagder>	you could dd the device to a file and then try
<Zagor>	I've already done that from a floppy
<Bagder>	ok
<Zagor>	worked fine (although the fat code isn't done yet)
*	Bagder looks around for food too
<Bagder>	so what worked?
<Bagder>	the dd?
<Zagor>	we could list a dir
<Bagder>	neat
<Zagor>	or part of, rather
<Zagor>	fat32's root dir isn't consecutive
<Zagor>	so we only got the first sector yet
<Bagder>	its a beginning
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<Zagor>	it's a relief only having to support fat32 and not -16 or (horror) -12
<Zagor>	fat12 is a mess
<Zagor>	the page at linux-usb.org is updated now, btw
<Bagder>	neato
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*	Zagor got a note from the post office today
<Zagor>	I think it's the donated Archos
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<ironi>	hello
<Bagder>	hi ironi
<ironi>	hi Bagder
<ironi>	nice with the double-space font
<Bagder>	that's a fun trick indeed
<ironi>	yeah
<ironi>	i wonder what it could be used for
<Bagder>	the "Rockbox" startup text! ;-)
<ironi>	thats the only thing i could come to think of
<ironi>	i would love to contribute to this project. too bad i dont know anything to be able to help
<Zagor>	many people have requested bigger fonts for use in the car
<ironi>	Zagor, true, true
<ironi>	Zagor/Bagder: off topic question: have you ever experienced that your bostream modem only has one lamp on?
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	not yet :)
<Zagor>	i've only had it about two weeks
<Bagder>	nope
<ironi>	oh ok
<ironi>	i got mine in january
<Bagder>	I've had mine since... september
<ironi>	last year
<ironi>	used it for 4 months, and then i moved out but have been paying all the time until now
<ironi>	and finally i got my own place again, and they connected it, but it wont work
<Bagder>	I have a friend who's bostream modem just stopped working one day
<Bagder>	didn't sync anymore
<Bagder>	took him weeks to convince the service guys to get there, check it and then it took some more weeks to replace it
<ironi>	oh. really?
<ironi>	might be same with mine, who knows
<Bagder>	they's *not* service minded
<Zagor>	"When you release the spec, six crazy Russians you never heard of will write an insanely fast encoder that implements it."
<Bagder>	they're
<Zagor>	(discussion about Vorbis not having proper specs)
<Bagder>	Ogg talk?
<Bagder>	yeha
<Bagder>	saw that one too
<Zagor>	i just enjoyed the "six crazy russians"
<ironi>	hehe kinda funny
<Bagder>	hehe
<Zagor>	hehe, do you guys know what TWAIN stands for?
<Bagder>	no idea
<Zagor>	Toolkit Without An Interesting Name !
<Zagor>	I love it!
<ironi>	technology
<Zagor>	ok
<ironi>	i tohught it was tehcnology and not toolkit
<ironi>	thought :)
<ironi>	i was away for a second
<ironi>	i actually knew that one :)
<Zagor>	hehe
<ironi>	http://base-linux.com/webcam.jpg
<Zagor>	it's a great name, nonetheless
<ironi>	thats a crazy nic to have for private use
<ironi>	Zagor, well yeah i guess a deeper meaning could be extracted
<ironi>	twain -> mark twain -> riverboats -> carrier -> supporter -> driver -> twain
<ironi>	ehm.....nah.
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	kinda far-fetched
<ironi>	very =)
<Zagor>	http://www.scannerplace.com.au/twain.htm
<Zagor>	http://dmoz.org/Computers/Hardware/Standards/TWAIN/desc.html
<Zagor>	no deeper meaning necessary
<Zagor>	hum, i'm reading the boot sector wrong...
<ironi>	i want to develop something
<ironi>	like anything
<ironi>	=)
<Zagor>	what are your skills?
<ironi>	i think i told you
<ironi>	im more of a web stuff guy
<ironi>	in addition i have very basic knowledge of c++ and java
<Zagor>	ok, sorry I have a pretty bad memory...
<Zagor>	you're very welcome to think up a prettier look for the web page
<ironi>	thats what too much drugs do to you =)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Zagor>	uh, brain damage. how do I round up a division without +0.5 ?
<edx|away>	int (division) + 1?
<edx|away>	LOL
<Zagor>	(4/2)+1 != 2
<edx|away>	ohh...
<edx|away>	too sad :/
<Zagor>	hehe
<edx|away>	then i dont know actually...
<edx|away>	number/divisor + (number%divisor!=0)
<edx|away>	LOL
<Zagor>	hehe. creative, i'll give you that :)
<edx|away>	lol
<edx|away>	is there a more efficient way? (certainly..)
<Zagor>	yes there is, it's just fallen off my head at the moment...
<Zagor>	% is not a cheap operation
<edx|away>	well
<edx|away>	you could do assembler and then % and / is one operation and it doesnt cost anything :)
<Zagor>	someone once said: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" :)
<edx|away>	i think i once even new the name of this someone - but in this case it is effective. as long as you dont know any other way :)
<edx|away>	Donald Knuth?
<Zagor>	yup
<edx|away>	hehe
<Bagder>	Zagor: what exact problem/math are you trying to solve with this?
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<Zagor>	nothing special, i'm just bugged by having forgot how
<ironi>	Zagor, is the webpage html
<edx>	lol
<ironi>	ehm i mean, is it static html only
<Zagor>	ironi: yes
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<Zagor>	ironi: 95%
<Zagor>	the mail archive is a cgi, for instance. and index.cgi is a load balancer
<Zagor>	but the rest is static
<Zagor>	built using a "make" template system
<Zagor>	that's why you only see .t files in cvs
<Zagor>	the webpage is in cvs too, so go there and look
<edx>	nick edx|testagain
<ironi>	Zagor, okay...
<edx>	./nick edx|testagain
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<edx|testagain>	LOL
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<ironi>	Zagor, a make template system...well i have no clue how that works :/
<ironi>	Zagor, what's the point of that?
<Zagor>	the point is that all headers are in head.t instead of copied in every .html file
<Zagor>	so I just write the page-relevant data in the .t files and then run "make", which assembles head.t, page.t and foot.t into page.html
<Zagor>	that makes it very simple to change things
<ironi>	ehm
<Zagor>	don't worry about that, just get us a better look :)
<ironi>	ever heard of SSI
<Zagor>	SSI is the devil's work
<ironi>	why?
<Zagor>	why do it dynamically when the data is static
<Zagor>	dynamic pages are for dynamic data, not for lazy web authors :)
<ironi>	well you do have a point
<ironi>	at least when the page is done
<ironi>	but to run make while oyu develop is a bit time-consuming
<Zagor>	not really. it takes about 0.3 seconds
<Zagor>	it's mapped to Alt-C in emacs
<ironi>	heh ok
<ironi>	well i use include in php
<ironi>	it is pretty common to do it that way, as far as i know
<Zagor>	SSI also has problems with parameters
<ironi>	how do you mean
<Zagor>	never mind. i like static pages and i like this system :)
<ironi>	i do some dynamic includes
<ironi>	and so on
<Zagor>	just give me better colors :)
*	Zagor is on his knees
<ironi>	but ok
<ironi>	Zagor, is there php support btw
<Zagor>	nope
<ironi>	Zagor, ok =)
<Zagor>	dynamic pages are 99% of the reason most web sites don't handle high traffic
<ironi>	Zagor, hey do you like the show on tv2?
<Zagor>	what is it?
<ironi>	its annika lantz
<Zagor>	ah
<ironi>	she is hilarious
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	ok well lemme see what I can do about the colors
<Zagor>	yeah, she's fun. I don't watch much tv anymore, though
<Zagor>	ok, good
<ironi>	heh ok
<ironi>	btw it doen't have to support lynx or somethingh like that right
*	Bagder accidentally mentions that he doesn't like that blue bgcolor ;-)
<ironi>	Bagder, i'm on it
<ironi>	too bad the jukebox doesn't have nice colors
<Zagor>	ironi: not really, but I'm not fond of too complex designs either
<Zagor>	Keep It Simple
<ironi>	Zagor, i like simplicity
<ironi>	KISS
<Zagor>	good
<ironi>	i kinda like the logo
<ironi>	see if i can do something around that concept
<Zagor>	ok, good
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<Zagor>	the colors of the activity table could use a looking-over too... :)
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<edx>	edx
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<edx>	haha *auto op script for edx on rockbox* lol
<Bagder>	amazing
<edx>	really.
<ironi>	Zagor, hehe sure
<ironi>	i think the logo should have a intropage
<ironi>	=)
<ironi>	maybe not.
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	welcome to 1998 :)
<ironi>	well a lot of pages have that in some kind of introduction phase
<ironi>	to create a image
<Bagder>	it sucks
<Zagor>	we're a bare-bones to-the-metal project
<Bagder>	and I know users all over think so too
<Zagor>	our web page should reflect that
<Zagor>	but that doesn't mean it have to be this ugly :)
<ironi>	Zagor, u got a point
<ironi>	i have a thought
<ironi>	can you get the layered image of the logo?
<ironi>	i.e. do you have one
<Zagor>	I can get it
<Zagor>	I don't have it here
<ironi>	ok
<ironi>	i like it just the way it is, im just interested in changing the yellow
<ironi>	a bit
<ironi>	this is what i thought
<Zagor>	ok
<ironi>	the jukebox has blue, gray and yellow
<ironi>	the 6000 is in some orange color
<ironi>	it fits very nice on the silver
<Zagor>	a little too strong for a background color, don't you think?
<ironi>	well the purple-ish below the display too, but i'd like to disregard from that
<ironi>	not for the logo
<ironi>	well maybe, but giving it a shot would be cool
<Zagor>	also, we shouldn't borrow design elements from the archos
<ironi>	gray is nice as bgcolor
<Zagor>	i'll see if I can get it layered so you can play with it
<ironi>	well using it as inspiration couldnt hurt
<Zagor>	no
<ironi>	*yawn*
<Zagor>	ironi: photoshop image coming soon
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<ironi>	Zagor, i was bored so i played way out
<Zagor>	:)
<ironi>	heh
<ironi>	ehm
<ironi>	4 mb
<ironi>	im on gprs
<Zagor>	oh
<Zagor>	ok :)
<ironi>	will take forever
<ironi>	that the only one?`
<ironi>	can u perhaps pack it
<Zagor>	i'll see what I can do
<Zagor>	that one's ~3500x1000 too, which may be a bit more than you need :)
<ironi>	heh
<ironi>	i'd say so, yes
<Zagor>	hmm, which file formats have layers? gimp can't save in psd format
<ironi>	i use layered .png images
<ironi>	in fireworks
<ironi>	so try saving it as such
<Zagor>	"PNG can't handle layers" it says :(
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<edx|sleeping>	cya guys
<Zagor>	good night
<ironi>	oh ok
<ironi>	well the fireworks is using some special png
<Zagor>	seems like it
<Zagor>	i guess you can't read XCF files? (gimp's format)
<ironi>	i dont know
<ironi>	i guess not
<Zagor>	probably not
<ironi>	well
<ironi>	ill try to do something tomorrow or so
<ironi>	nlinks.org/dev/test.gif <-- just something i played around with, for fun
<ironi>	.jpg
<ironi>	http://nlinks.org/dev/test.jpg
<Zagor>	hey, cool!
<Zagor>	you're good!
<ironi>	thanks :)
<ironi>	well, I'm going to relax in front of the tv now...talk to you tomorrow...
<Zagor>	yeah, bye
<ironi>	i think we can use the colors....well, talk  to u later
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<adi|asleep>	wow.. that is cool...
<Zagor>	sure is
*	adi|asleep thinks we just found our web guy ;)
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<Moufle>	hi
<Zagor>	hi
<Moufle>	I just bought a recorder 20g, and I run it on linux
<Moufle>	it's charging right now
<Moufle>	it looks exciting
<Zagor>	:)
<Moufle>	Is rockbox somewhat usable, or is it alpha right now?
<Zagor>	it's pre-alpha :)
<Zagor>	we're still writing parts of the code
<Zagor>	i'm working on the fat32 code right now
<Moufle>	hmm ok :)
<Moufle>	you've got previous experience in programming that kind of stuff?
<Zagor>	yes, i do embedded programming for a living
<Moufle>	I've got a very good general computer culture, but I don't speak C fluently ;)
<Zagor>	ok
<Moufle>	In fact, it's just a matter of changing bits on the chips and doing simple logic operation....?
<Moufle>	I know it's hard
<Zagor>	well, all programming is "just a matter of changing bits" :-)
<Moufle>	but you look well documented
<Zagor>	we have most of the documentation we need
<Moufle>	I'm gonna read your chat logs on the website
<Zagor>	ok :)
<Moufle>	But this project excites me a lot
<Moufle>	I hope i'll ba able to help you later
<Zagor>	you're welcome!
<Moufle>	BTW, what's needed to compile the firware, a special gcc (for the archos CPU?)
<Zagor>	yes. the sh-gcc. there's a page on the web site describing how to build it
<Zagor>	there's rpms available too
<Moufle>	Ok, I'm going to look at it and build it
<Moufle>	thanks a lot, good coding :)
<Zagor>	hehe, thanks
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---	Topic for #rockbox is Open Source Jukebox Firmware - http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/
---	Topic for #rockbox set by Zagor at Fri Apr 12 09:45:52
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<Zagor>	wooooohoooooo
*	Zagor just manage to parse a multisector directory :)
<Zagor>	phew
<adiamas>	sweet...
*	adiamas doesn't have a clue how difficult that is.
<Zagor>	it shouldn't be difficult, but when it's late and you have a silly bug that taunts you, it is...
<Zagor>	basically, it means the fat32 part of fat.c now works
<Zagor>	what's left is vfat (long filenames)
<Zagor>	fat.c just went YELLOW on the activity table :)
<Zagor>	time for bed. see you later
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<calpefrosch>	hi 
<edx|breakfast>	hi
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<Zagor>	hiya guys
<Bagder>	hey
<Zagor>	just got the donated archos
<Bagder>	cool
<Zagor>	very!
<Bagder>	new/old lcd?
<Zagor>	it's also very dead :-) but I knew that
<Bagder>	ah
<Zagor>	actually, it looks like an old
<Zagor>	i'll open up and take a look
<Bagder>	you gonna swap CPUs with this or what?
<Zagor>	well I can't if it's an old. I guess then I'll convince Peter to trade back with me :)
*	Bagder giggless
<Zagor>	he'll love me...
*	Bagder is engaged in a hair-tearing debug-per-email session
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	that mail on the curl list about 6.5.2 working but not 7.9.6
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	try and talk them into #curl :)
<Bagder>	yeah
*	Zagor notices the label over one the screws is labeled "Warrenty seal"
<Zagor>	what's warrenty? ;)
<Bagder>	Isn't that an actor? warrenbeaty? 
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	fat.c went from status red to yellow yesterday
<Bagder>	wow
<Bagder>	so you can simulate a few things with it now?
<Zagor>	yeah, i can read a directory now
<Zagor>	short names only, so far
<Bagder>	still cool
*	Bagder watches a line formerly read now being yellow...
<Bagder>	s/read/red
<Zagor>	yup. it doesn't feel quite as obscure anymore, which is always good
<Bagder>	indeed
<Bagder>	getting a feel for the source and how things work is a huge part of things
<Bagder>	even before the functionality is there
<Zagor>	yes. i've simplified it a lot too. so now it's much more penetrable
<Bagder>	that's very good
<Zagor>	i can smell burnt electronics from the new archos :)
<Bagder>	hah
<Zagor>	whoa, it's almost as old as mine and linus
<Zagor>	a 20th century archos!
<Bagder>	gosh
<Zagor>	it's made 0052, just six weeks after ours 0046
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<Zagor>	hi edx
<edx>	lol just gave my private rockbox shirt in print ;)
<Bagder>	we wanna see pictures of you wearing it later 
<Zagor>	hehe. you have to post photos!
<Zagor>	<ironi> nlinks.org/dev/test.jpg <-- just something i played around with, for fun
<edx>	hey this is cool!
<Bagder>	wow
<Zagor>	i think we'll soon get a prettier web page :)
<Bagder>	he knows his stuff
<Zagor>	yup
<edx>	hehe... i will - i just had to put some names on the shirt hihi
<edx>	ppl of the list who develop stuff ;)
<Zagor>	hehe
<edx>	i put the internet site and the irc channel on it..
<Zagor>	sounds like a cool shirt
<edx>	the site ironi is developing has one problem:
<edx>	the font he uses is Verdana i guess - it is not supported by linux
<Zagor>	i know, it's just a mockup
<edx>	hehe
<Zagor>	we'll use arial or helvetica or something
<edx>	zagor.. are you currently working on a linux machine?
<Zagor>	yes
<edx>	http://codeforce.d2g.com/
<Zagor>	always
<edx>	does it look fucked up?
<edx>	lol
<Bagder>	no
<Zagor>	looks ok
<edx>	how is that?
<edx>	what font type is it?
<Bagder>	I dunno
<Zagor>	sans-serif
<Zagor>	arial, i think
<edx>	ok ... (is verdana on windows)
<edx>	i guess i put arial as alternative font then...
<Bagder>	well, web pages don't go blank if they can't find the font anyway
<Zagor>	yes you did :)
<Zagor>	font-family: Verdana, Tahoma, Arial;
<edx>	ok hehe
<Zagor>	you should att "sans-serif" to the end of that list
<Zagor>	add
<edx>	.. ok
<Zagor>	that's the fallback font
<Zagor>	whatever the browser can find
<Zagor>	otherwise most fonts will use Times when they can't find any of these three fonts
<Zagor>	most browsers
<edx>	*just added it*
<Zagor>	:)
<edx>	(heh it doesnt matter anyways because it is a msvc++ site so nobody from linux will ever go there haha)
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	but maybe some mac people
<edx>	(unless i make them, like you)
<edx>	damn.. got a bunch of homework for this weekend...
<edx>	class test on monday :/ that all sucks..
<Zagor>	me too: fat driver, x11 simulator... ;)
<Zagor>	edx: i received the donated archos today
<Zagor>	it's really cool how people want to help the project
*	Bagder agrees
<edx>	a donated archos.. great... you know who sent it?
<Zagor>	yes, a guy called Julien Labruyére
<edx>	he has too much monay?! lol
<Zagor>	no, he broke it and got a new recorder insteda
<Zagor>	so we have to fix the power circuit, but that's no problem
<edx>	<sarcastic>be careful, one day archos is gonna "donate" you a jukebox with a free letter bomb</sarcastic>
<Zagor>	hehe
<edx>	i played lotto today - if i get the 9 million Euro jackpot, ill donate something as well (haha)
<Bagder>	a t-shirt? ;-)
<Zagor>	a tshirt would be cool
<edx>	t-shirts for everyone.. in every color lol
<edx>	(do you knwo what lotto is btw...)?
<Zagor>	great! i'll never have to wash again!
<Zagor>	yes, it's the same word in swedish
*	Bagder has been offered a donated t-shirt in another project
<edx>	ok..
<Bagder>	http://www.karelia.com/images/tshirt.jpg
<edx>	a 10% size-little-messed-up-version of the t-shirt:
<edx>	http://codeforce.d2g.com/rockbox/tshirt.jpg
<Bagder>	rock n' roll
<edx>	ok.. time to eat some thing...
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<Zagor>	what's "Watson"?
<Bagder>	it's a commerical Mac OS X program heavily based on libcurl
<Zagor>	ah
<Bagder>	gotta run an errend, back in while
<edx|eating>	whats errend? lol
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<Zagor>	:)
<edx>	please, tell me... :D
<Zagor>	errand: [noun] A short trip taken to perform a specified task, usually for another.
<edx>	huh.. wasnt even in the online dictionary i use :/
<edx>	ok thanks :)
<Zagor>	dictionary.com
<edx>	dict.leo.org isnt too bad either - it is German-English tho
<Zagor>	he spelled it wrong, maybe that's why didn't find it
<edx>	jup
<edx>	a short journey in order to do something for someone, for example delivering or getting something for them
<edx>	© Pearson Education Limited 2000
<edx>	lol
<edx>	@ t-shirts.. if shipping wasn't too expensive we could have a t-shirt order service hehe
<Zagor>	hehe
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<edx>	hmmmmm... damn.. i put irc.openprojects.org on the t-shirt *noooooo!!*
<Zagor>	oops...
<edx>	well... nobody will be inspired to join the irc channel because of my shirt anyways
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<calpefrosch>	hi edx
<edx>	hi
<calpefrosch>	I have to go in 5 minutes
<calpefrosch>	but, can we meet later ?
<edx>	sure
<calpefrosch>	I would like to discuss some things about the simulator
<edx>	ill be here for at least 6 hours from now..
<edx>	no problem
<calpefrosch>	ok, then cu l8r
<edx>	cu
<calpefrosch>	tnx
<calpefrosch>	bye
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<Zagor>	I'll be away about half an hour
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*	Bagder is back
*	edx greets Bagder
<Bagder>	and I nailed a bug!
<edx>	hehe.. what bug?
<Bagder>	unrelated to rockbox
<edx>	ah ok
<edx>	congrats anyways ;D
<Bagder>	heh, thanks
<Bagder>	curl => http://curl.haxx.se is my biggest open source project I'm involved in
<edx>	*looking at it*
<Bagder>	or, that's what takes my most time
<edx>	hmm i think i heard of curl before...
<Bagder>	not impossible
<Bagder>	it's getting quite widespread use these days
<Bagder>	there's also a commercial web language named curl, but that's another subject
<edx>	you are "haxx" (haxx.se) then...
<Bagder>	Haxx is our company, haxx.se is our domain
<edx>	jup
<Bagder>	Björn, me, Linus and a fourth friend
<edx>	that is cool.. you are four people together?
<Bagder>	yeps
<Bagder>	but we're employed by another company where we work full time
<Bagder>	Haxx is just a spare time company ;-)
<edx>	ah ok.. i was already wondering why bjorn told me he was at work yesterday - i guess you dont have you own office rooms for haxx hehe
<Bagder>	correct
<Bagder>	we work for Contactor => www.contactor.se (site in swedish only)
<Bagder>	as consultants
<edx>	hehe - dont understand a word :)_
<edx>	how old are you?
<Bagder>	so Björn and Linus spend their days on Siemens
<Bagder>	I'm 31
<edx>	then you are a little younger than bjorn, right?
<Bagder>	no, he's my kid brother. Björn's "only" 29
<edx>	oh the int was linus who's 33
<edx>	the int = then it
<Bagder>	right
<Bagder>	our "old man" ;-)
<edx>	hehe
<edx>	"programming since 85".. thats a lot (from you site)..
<Bagder>	yeah
<edx>	i was born in 86 hehe
<Bagder>	half my life
<Bagder>	wow
<edx>	more than my life
<Bagder>	I and Björn bought our first computer 1985
<Bagder>	he was 12, I was 14
<edx>	i started programming in 96 i think.. Quick Basic lol - i was 10
<edx>	what computer was it?
<Bagder>	C64
<edx>	my first as an ATARI ST something - it wasnt really mine but i used it a lot
<edx>	after that came a pc.. win95
<Bagder>	stuff we made on the C64 => http://www.contactor.se/~kjer/horizon/
<edx>	so i was nearly directly involved in windows business
<Bagder>	I took the route C64 => Amiga => Linux
<edx>	hehe
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<Bagder>	connection problems?
<edx>	i dont know
<edx>	just was disconencted
<edx>	the horizon stuff you did must have been really great and a lot of work for that time...
<Bagder>	oh yes
<Bagder>	we spent *many* hours on that
<Bagder>	and we did pretty good on the "demo competitions" 
<edx>	i can imagine that.. :)
<edx>	Zagor is a really old nick ;)
<Bagder>	is indeed
<Bagder>	mine is only from 1987 ;-)
<edx>	old enough - mine is less than a year old - didnt have a nick before.. just didnt find one that fit my taste ;)
<edx>	you did a lot with this sinus stuff
<edx>	did you write the sin functions by your self (it is calculating the sinus values)?
<Bagder>	no, we usually generated sinus tables from a basic program
<edx>	ah :)
<edx>	"69248 chars in one single scroller."
<edx>	Wow.
<edx>	Where did you get that much text from?
<Bagder>	we had a machine on "copy party" and whoever wanted could write
<edx>	hehe
<Bagder>	remember that the machine only had 64K ram...
<edx>	what were those parties like? competitions..?
<Bagder>	the parties were like a couple of hundreds guys who brought their computers
<Bagder>	set up everything in a school or something
<edx>	LAN-Parties? hehe
<Bagder>	they call it that these days, yes
<edx>	but lanparties are like playing stuf..
<Bagder>	we had no LANs back then
<Bagder>	and we didn't play
<edx>	hehe of course not
<Bagder>	we coded
<Bagder>	demos
<edx>	jup.
<Bagder>	night and day
<Bagder>	and had a competition in the end
<edx>	i could never find enough ppl in my age to make a "coding party"
<Bagder>	where the demos were usually screened using a bigscreen
<Bagder>	and people could vote
<edx>	hehe cool
<Bagder>	too bad, coding is that makes computers most fun ;-)
<Bagder>	I still think so
<edx>	how did you draw the pictures btw..?
<edx>	yea i think so too
<Bagder>	the pics were made like today, with paint programs
<Bagder>	only more basic programs and less colors available
<edx>	hmm they look so perfect hehe... did the programs support emboss effects or something like that or did you draw it yourself?
<Bagder>	manually
<Bagder>	pretty much everything was manual
<edx>	wow..
<Bagder>	but since we became successful
<edx>	things really develop fast. :)
<Bagder>	we got lots of friends who wanted to help us with things like that
<Bagder>	so we got lots of pics and logos etc from other people
<Bagder>	yes, things were quite different back then
<Bagder>	not better, different
<edx>	i wish i would have started a little earlier. but 10 years is about as early as possible.
<Bagder>	it is
<Bagder>	you seem to have learned quite a lot anywaya
<edx>	heh i love my computer :P - i spent as much time with it as possible.
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<Bagder>	hey Alan
<edx>	hi
<alkorr>	hi everbody
<Bagder>	Björn got his donated Archos
<alkorr>	Björn is out ?
<Bagder>	yes
<alkorr>	good news
<alkorr>	and a working archos ?
<Bagder>	he should be back soon though
<Bagder>	no
<edx>	yea.. a few mins..
<Bagder>	it doesn't work, but Björn thought he'd be able to fix it
<alkorr>	what it is the third archos with a broken serial !?
<Bagder>	we don't know yet on this one
<alkorr>	i'm reworking my ata stuff to have an interrupt-driven code
<Bagder>	cool
<alkorr>	we don't need a thread for working with ata
<alkorr>	just a queue of requests
<alkorr>	i think the same thing can be achieved for MAS
<Bagder>	it would probably be good, pretty efficiant
<alkorr>	i mean a queue to serialize operations should be enough and more efficient in performance terms
<Bagder>	yes
<alkorr>	unhopefully your devcon doesn't tell me why you want those three tasks nor what they really do
*	PsycoXul blinks
<alkorr>	if i could know what you exactly need, i can give the best way to implement since I know very the internals of SH1
<alkorr>	hum... i'll be back. I hope Björn will be here when back
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<alkorr>	wakeup here ! :)
*	Zagor wakes up
*	Bagder yawns
<alkorr>	so you new toy ?
<Zagor>	yes, but it has a power problem so Linus is going to look at it
<Zagor>	(I knew it had this problem)
<alkorr>	what kind of problem ?
<Zagor>	I think he reversed the polarity of the charger and fried something
<alkorr>	well i suppose our generous donator was not so generous as to give you a working one ;P
<Zagor>	I still think it's very generous
<alkorr>	i mean i was atonished that a person will give a working archos
<alkorr>	i would be
<Zagor>	ok
<Zagor>	yes, I agree there's a difference
<Zagor>	but I'm very happy for this donation anyway
<alkorr>	because i thought it was a working archos :)
<alkorr>	but now i understand why
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<alkorr>	sure we must gratulate this person for his donation
<Zagor>	yes, I have written it on the front page
<alkorr>	Björn, i need some details about you devcon, especially about the tasks
<alkorr>	Linus told me that you wanted a special thread to do ata stuff
<Zagor>	maybe, yes
<Zagor>	either that, or the interrupt handles everything
<alkorr>	because you thought we cannot use interrupts with the ata controller 
<alkorr>	i explained him that if my ata.c had no interrupt code, it is because I was lazy
<alkorr>	quite now, i coding an ata driven-interrupt code where all what regards ata handling are done in the interrupt.
<Zagor>	yes but I think that's ok. we can start with polled and then do interrupts
<Zagor>	ok, nice
<alkorr>	it means that there is no thread but a queue for requests
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	i'm committing my last ata changes now so I have no local modifications
<alkorr>	i'm still wondering if we need read-ahead
<Zagor>	not now
<alkorr>	i don't change your ata.c
<Zagor>	I want to do things very simple at first and add more complexity later
<alkorr>	please be cautious, i read your ata.c and see you oversimplify the code to an extent i fear that code generated for sh1 is worse.
<Zagor>	I know
<Zagor>	that's deliberate
<Zagor>	when the code works, then we make it small&fast
<Bagder>	I have gathered a little list of contributors in a CREDITS file, should I just commit it and have you fill in more/edit it?
<Zagor>	please do
<Bagder>	is the firmware dir fine?
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<Zagor>	yup
<Bagder>	done
<edx>	btw.. could anyone write a file defining the file access functions (just the header) so i can implement them on the simulator?
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<edx>	or shall i write the file (but i dont know the "devcon standard")
<calpefrosch>	hi all together
<Bagder>	imho, you can write it
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	then we can just edit/discuss things we don't agree with
<edx>	ill try - you can still change them later
<Bagder>	exactly
<edx>	what name? and what dir? (the header file)
<calpefrosch>	edx, if you don't mind I would like to help you wuth the simulator.
*	Bagder leaves that decision to Björn
<edx>	sure, i dont mind
*	edx asks björn...
<Zagor>	ummm...
<calpefrosch>	cool, then I have some questions to you.
<edx>	fileio.h
<Bagder>	fs.h ?
<edx>	go ahead, calpefrosch
<calpefrosch>	tnx, hmmm... 
<Bagder>	Zagor: I scanned the list archives quickly, checked the web and stuff to figure out the initial CREDITS but I'm sure I've missed a few names
<Zagor>	i'll take a look at it
<edx>	hm.. say a header name ;)
<calpefrosch>	I did no C before, so I have no idea how to change the struc with the colors.
<Zagor>	file.h
<edx>	ok
<edx>	the only thing you have to change are two lines in uisw32.h:
<calpefrosch>	my idea was to change the background-color in the struc
<edx>	#define UI_LCD_COLOR                46, 67, 49 // bkgnd color of LCD
<edx>	#define UI_LCD_BLACK                0, 0, 0 // black
<calpefrosch>	sure
<edx>	the first line is the background color
<calpefrosch>	but I want to change the color at runtime...
<edx>	oh...
<edx>	hm
<edx>	then you have to change the bmi structure.
<calpefrosch>	right
<calpefrosch>	but I had some problems with the location, where to change it.
<edx>	we would have to define an extra function for this...
<calpefrosch>	wait 1 minute, please
<edx>	Bjorn, is there a function to change backlight color in the lcd code (no) - could we define it (even if it is not yet implemented outside the simulator)
<Zagor>	edx: why would we want that? the color is green. there's no way to change that
<edx>	ahmm backlight
<Zagor>	ok, extern void lcd_backlight(bool on);
<edx>	and contrast... 
<edx>	you can regulate backlight i think... with the menu
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<edx>	hey who change DISP_X to LCD_WIDTH constant ;)
<calpefrosch>	yeah, I saw this on Friday,too. 
<Bagder>	it was LCD_WIDTH all the time
<calpefrosch>	arhg, I had to reboot.
<Bagder>	but it was DISP_X too
<Zagor>	edx: that was me. they both existed, I just removed the one with the worse name.
<calpefrosch>	allways, at the second time a switch on the archos with USB connected I get this damned BSOD ... :-(
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: ugha
<edx>	calpefrosch: hey... you use USB 2?
<calpefrosch>	no
<edx>	ok.. i have a similar problem but i think it is related to my usb2 adapter (it works with usb1.1)
<calpefrosch>	the first time after reboot everything is working. But at the 2. there comes this page fault at ..
<calpefrosch>	ok, but now to the bmi struc
<edx>	well.. changing background color only makes sense if we have a backlight function
<edx>	Zagor: can backlight be changed?
<calpefrosch>	I have to checkout the newest code...
<Zagor>	edx: just on and off
<edx>	wait im still editing
<Bagder>	calpefrosch: you just need to update
<calpefrosch>	at the recorder we can could the intensity, I think
<calpefrosch>	-can
<calpefrosch>	argh, ok again... we could change the ...
<edx>	yea thats what i thoguht too
<edx>	Zagor: what is this line and shall i use it in my files too?
<edx>	* $Id$
<Zagor>	edx: yes
<edx>	is it automatically filled by cvs?
<Bagder>	yes
<edx>	(just removed unneeded lcd code) how do I delete the file lcd.c in the cvs (renamed it to lcd-win32.c)
<Bagder>	cvs rm file
<Bagder>	after it was deleted for real 
<calpefrosch>	hmm, i have to fondle my girlfriend. sorry. edx: can we discuss this on monday ? when do you go to school ?
<calpefrosch>	is this usb2 really fast?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	:-)
<edx>	damn it rocks
<calpefrosch>	maybe I should by a controller. 
<edx>	but my damn adapter is damaged or something. it works with win98/me/2k whatever but not with winxp
<edx>	hehe you have anything but windowsxp, calpefrosch?
<calpefrosch>	hehe, don't use xp ;-)
<calpefrosch>	I have w2k, xp, linux. what you want !
<Bagder>	edx: sounds more like an XP problem and not an adapter problem
<edx>	sure it is an xp problem
<calpefrosch>	ok, cu. bye. 
<Bagder>	bye calpefrosch
<edx>	cu
<calpefrosch>	edx: monday ?
<Bagder>	Zagor: do you have my 'cvscheck' tool?
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<Zagor>	no, what's that?
<Bagder>	a tiny script to display which files that are modified, by you or in the repository
<Bagder>	I find it handy to use
<edx>	haha ;) with windows xp i got a shell extension that displays modified files in red others in green and i can click-commit/add/remove etc :o)
<Bagder>	but what about "needs patch" ?
<Bagder>	you need to check with the server to know that ;-)
<edx>	what is "needs patch"?
<Bagder>	when the file has been modifed on the server
<edx>	hm now i just rightclick -> update then
<Bagder>	righ
<Bagder>	t
<Bagder>	but my script displays the status, it doesn't change it
<edx>	hm. damn. the tetris code is not working anymore :/
<Bagder>	uh
<edx>	ok.. got the bug :)
*	Bagder salutes edx
*	edx smiles
<edx>	would it be useful to have getbacklight function returing a bool... ?
<Zagor>	edx: why?
<alan>	yes why ?
<edx>	hmm if we have a settings menu it need to determine whether bl is on or off
<edx>	*needs
<alan>	not necesserally
<Zagor>	settings should say how long the bl timeout should be, not permanent "on/off"
<edx>	ahhh that is what this setting does
<edx>	ok
<edx>	im working on the file functions now..
<Zagor>	of course we *could* have an on/off setting too, but who wants backlight on all day?
<edx>	yea..
<Bagder>	Zagor: possibly the guys using them in cars or similar
<edx>	file.h - into firmware or firmware/drivers/ or where?
<alan>	and during night
<Zagor>	Bagder: good point
<Zagor>	edx: common
<edx>	ok
<Zagor>	firmware/common
<Zagor>	i think we had a port pin that said when the charger is attached, don't we?
<Zagor>	PA0 according to my notes
<alan>	let me check
<alan>	are you speaking about DCIN ?
<Zagor>	yes
<alan>	yes
<edx>	int open (char *filename);
<edx>	is that ok, file.h?
<alan>	according to my notes too
<alan>	an int ?
<Bagder>	int open(const char *pathname, int flags);
<alan>	flags is fake ?
<Zagor>	edx: ssh into your sourceforge account and run "man open" etc, then you see the posix syntax
<Bagder>	no, flags for read or write etc
<Bagder>	only read supported for starters
<edx>	oh... yea..
<edx>	*stupid me*
*	Zagor is #ifdef:ing out the write code in the first version :)
<alan>	i don't see the point to check if we can read or write on a file
<Bagder>	?
<Bagder>	we might want to write a file
<Zagor>	it's not a check. it's wether to open it for reading or writing
<alan>	if you want that function for posix compliance
<Bagder>	like playlists?
<alan>	but we are not forced to handle all access rights
<edx>	yea.. *really important* a built-in playlist editor
<Zagor>	it's not about access
<alan>	it isn't worth extra code
<Bagder>	that's why there's only two arguments
<Zagor>	it's about if you want to read or write the file. truncate or not etc.
<edx>	it sucks that you have to write playlists on your pc...
<Bagder>	the access rights is in the *3rd* argument
<edx>	the third.. do we need that?
<Zagor>	no
<Bagder>	no
<edx>	k
<alan>	ah yes... but i was speaking read-only checking
<Zagor>	ok
<alan>	okay we can use that flag to determine if we open OR create a file
<Bagder>	exactly
<Bagder>	or append
<alan>	but we don't bother with checking for read-only file or stuff like it 
<Zagor>	no
<alan>	open returns an int
<Bagder>	seems totaly useless
<alan>	what do you return in reatlity
<Zagor>	file handle
<Bagder>	that's an index in a table
<alan>	Does it matter
<Bagder>	we make it support N opened files
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	because that's how posix open() works
<edx>	... uhm.. guys.. take a look at that:
<edx>	int open (char *filename, int flags);
<edx>	int close (int handle);
<edx>	int read (int handle, void *buffer, unsigned int count);
<edx>	int write (int hnalde, void *buffer, unsigned int count);
<edx>	int seek (int handle, long offset, int origin);
<edx>	int unlink (char *filename);
<edx>	int rename (char *filename, char *newname);
<edx>	is that ok?
<alan>	lseek
<Zagor>	edx: yup
<edx>	it says seek @ devcon
<edx>	not lseek
<Zagor>	it's wrong
<Zagor>	it should be lseek
<Bagder>	it should be lseek(), right?
<alan>	i don't remember a posix seek
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	lseek is posix
<edx>	then.. the opendir.. what is it supposed to do?
*	Zagor wonders what the 'l' is for
*	edx thinks it is for long (?)
<Zagor>	edx: return a dir handle
<edx>	aha...
<edx>	hmm
<alan>	man opendir ;)
<Zagor>	it's for doing readdir() on
<edx>	hmhm... it is for scanning a directory?
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	you need some man pages edx ;-)
<alan>	zagor, it is for long seek with a 32-bit offset with 16-bit cpu (?)
<alan>	i don't remember exactly 
<Zagor>	ok
<edx>	what does readdir do? (sorry.. win32 functions are different there..)
<edx>	ie. what parameters does it get?
<Zagor>	edx: it's like findfirst/findnext
<Bagder>	"returns  a  pointer  to a dirent structure representing the next  directory  entry  in  the directory  stream  pointed  to by dir."
<alan>	let me check
<Zagor>	int readdir(unsigned int fd, struct dirent *dirp, unsigned int count);
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	       struct dirent *readdir(DIR *dir);
<Bagder>	Zagor: wrong readdir ;-)
<edx>	ok thanks. i will not include disk operations into file.h, right?
<Zagor>	oh
<Zagor>	edx: opendir and readdir goes into file.h
<edx>	opendir returns DIR then?
<Bagder>	DIR *
<alan>	just a minute, are you sure ?
<Bagder>	yes
<edx>	DIR *opendir (char *dirname);
<edx>	int closedir (DIR *dir);
<edx>	struct dirent *readdir(DIR *dir);
<edx>	is that ok?
<Bagder>	and readdir() takes a DIR *
<Bagder>	looks fine
<edx>	hm.. i gotta think up a way to do that in windows
<alan>	edx: cygwin ?
<Bagder>	well, we don't have any code using that function yet, so you have your time ;-)
<edx>	nah.. not cygwin
<alan>	linux ?
<edx>	clean windows code.. :)
<alan>	edx : you are under Windows or Linux ?
<alan>	if under Cygwin, try to find the file ".../cygwin/usr/include/sys/dirent.h"
<alan>	you will find the functions and structure which would likely be changed 
<alan>	or maybe not some fields are junks
<alan>	DIR *opendir (const char *);struct dirent *readdir (DIR *);void rewinddir (DIR *);int closedir (DIR *);
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<Bagder>	hey ironi
<Bagder>	I just love that web thing
<ironi>	Bagder, that web thing?
<alan>	???
*	Bagder tries to find the URL
<ironi>	ah ok
<Bagder>	Zagor pointed me to it
<ironi>	Bagder, http://nlinks.org/dev/test.jpg
*	Zagor has leaked :)
<ironi>	yeah i did it for fun while i was bored last night heh
<ironi>	:-P
<Bagder>	that's the one, yes
<edx>	hey .. could anyone send me his dirent.h (the directory structure definitions)
<edx>	ironi: the page looks great :)
<alan>	who is the sexy girl ?
<ironi>	Bagder, cool that you like it, maybe I could do something with it as inspiration
<ironi>	edx, thx
<alan>	edx: i can
<Bagder>	edx: I think you'll reach results better if you just write up your own win32 version
<ironi>	alan, some girl from photodisk.com :)
<ironi>	i did not buy the image, though :)
<alan>	arf
<edx>	badger: yes, but i need to know what entries are in the DIR, dirent structires
<ironi>	it's intersting how a photo can change the appearance of a very simple page
<alan>	are you okay for DDC SEND ?
<edx>	me? i guess so
<Zagor>	edx: actually, you don't. use whatever contents you like. it's just a pointer used as a handle
<Bagder>	Zagor: except for the one single one used for the file name
<Zagor>	posix defines a inode number, which you'll have a hard time emulating :)
<edx>	thanks, alan!
<Zagor>	Bagder: right, he needs d_name
<Bagder>	"char d_name[] of unspecified size, with at  most  NAME_MAX characters  preceding the terminating null character."
<alan>	inode number is a junk for cygwin
<Zagor>	yes
<ironi>	Zagor, the news entries, are they static?
<alan>	in fact we can use to have start cluster
<Zagor>	ironi: yes
<ironi>	Zagor, ok
<Zagor>	alan: not a bad idea
<Bagder>	but edx won't need that in the simulator
<alan>	when you rename a file in ext2fs, you change its inode ?
<Zagor>	i don't think so
<alan>	Bagder: right, some fileds can be removed
<Bagder>	mv doesn't change inode, no
<alan>	inode number is what exactly
<alan>	?
<Bagder>	it identifies a single file entry
<Bagder>	I'm not very good on fs internals though
<alan>	i wonder if an inode is a cluster equivalent
<Zagor>	no
<Bagder>	start-cluster equivalent I guess
<Zagor>	a file can change position and keep the same nodeid
<Zagor>	i'm pretty sure
<alan>	there's a difference between inode and nodeid ?
<alan>	hopefully i have explore2fs under windows, i can browse linuw source
<Zagor>	explore2fs is amazingly slow :)
<alan>	true
<edx>	hmm.. this might be enough: typedef HANDLE DIR;
<edx>	is it ok to allocate memory for DIR and return the allocated memory and free it in closedir?
<alan>	but with udma 100, it becomes less slower :)
<Bagder>	for you it is
<Zagor>	edx: in your emulator anything is ok
<edx>	hmm not necessarily ;)
<edx>	how do you do it on the jukebox device - where do you free the returned *DIR pointer>
<edx>	?
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	edx: well have an array of structs
<Bagder>	static
<edx>	hmm
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	and just return a pointer to the first unused
<edx>	isnt that a vaste of memory
<Bagder>	we want to avoid dynamic memory use
<edx>	and wouldnt it be nicer to have as many dirs open as memory is avaialbe?
<edx>	why
<Zagor>	we don't want many dirs open
<edx>	why not ;)
<Bagder>	it takes more memory
<edx>	oh well.. that is not that bad... those few bytes..
<Zagor>	dynamic memory causes fragmentation
<edx>	okok..
<Zagor>	fragmentation causes instability
<Zagor>	or at least non-determinism
<alan>	i'm not sure about that
<alan>	oh yes now i aggree
<Bagder>	dynamic memory will be used eventually anyway
<Zagor>	oh yes
<Zagor>	but we don't want to overuse it
<Bagder>	but we should stay out of it as much as possible in core stuff
<alan>	static array : space wasted when underused but simpler to start with
<Bagder>	yes
<alan>	dynamic array:
<alan>	if you use the same range for non pertinent structures
<alan>	there would be few fragmentation
<alan>	sorry i mean persistent
<alan>	indeed you must avoid to use persistent structures to avoid fragmentation.
<alan>	quite now use static array
<alan>	it is very easy to use malloc and free with windows but in our firmare it is another story :)
<edx>	heh
<edx>	hmm i actually do have a problem.
<edx>	the simulator needs to call the open function (from io.h) with the same parameters.. how can i make it understand which function is meant?
<alan>	for files you have open files, the same you have foe directories, open directory (DIR *)
<edx>	and how are you gonna do that in linux?
<Zagor>	i don't understand the question
<alan>	just a minute, what do you want  to do ?
<Bagder>	edx: why simular that at all?
<Bagder>	simulate
<Bagder>	use the windows version
<edx>	the openfunction has a little different parameters..
<alan>	file_open
<alan>	or something similar
<edx>	yea.. we could change names to file_open...
*	Bagder would prefer not to
<edx>	hm
<edx>	ok
<alan>	stop !
<alan>	there are two sides
<alan>	the posix side and the specific side for file handling
<Bagder>	?
<Bagder>	you mean there's an API
<alan>	i suppose if we want posix files it is for programming commodity
<Bagder>	and an implementation?
<alan>	yes
<edx>	#ifndef SIMULATOR define functions #else #include the windwos header file
<alan>	i mean an "open" is handling a table of open file and call the true open_file.
<alan>	to code a fat "open" is not a good idea
<Bagder>	I still don't get it
<Bagder>	yes, open will need to do stuff
<Bagder>	it could call open_file
<Zagor>	fat_open()
<alan>	fat functions are the real part, and posix functions wrappers with additional stuff
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	the posix is an api
<alan>	okay
<alan>	so edx for its simulator just neet to code an "open" which call the true "FileOpen" (?)
<Zagor>	exactly
<alan>	sorry for mistakes
<Bagder>	but...
<alan>	yes ?
<Bagder>	windows already has an open(), doesn't it?
<alan>	you mean a posix compliant library ?
<edx>	hmm.. opendir.. does the first parameter contain wildcards???
<Bagder>	no
<alan>	maybe...
<Bagder>	posix compliant open
<Bagder>	edx: no
<edx>	hm
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	speaking of that, do we need wildcard support anywhere?
<edx>	what does opendir return if it fails btw..? -1?
<Zagor>	i don't see what for
<edx>	or rather NULL
<Zagor>	edx: you really need those man pages :)
<Bagder>	edx: NULL, right
<edx>	ok
<Bagder>	http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man3/opendir.3.html
<edx>	thx
<alan>	Bagder: for the moment, i don't think so
<alan>	jukebox has no keyboard
<alan>	i don't see how we can put wildcard * and ? :)
<Bagder>	it hasn't? B-]
<Bagder>	well
<Bagder>	we put code in it
<Bagder>	the code could use wildcards
<Bagder>	I think it *could* be done
<alan>	give me an example :)
<alan>	i cannot find one myself
<Bagder>	show only files that matchs "*.mp3"
<Zagor>	we don't write it until we need it
<alan>	wrong
<Bagder>	not a very good one
<Zagor>	anyway
<Bagder>	very true
<alan>	just a note about extension
<alan>	we don't need to include extension in the name, just add an extension type along with the filename
<Bagder>	?
<Bagder>	the file name is stored via USB
<Bagder>	when will the extension be cut off?
<alan>	no, i'm speaking about the way rockbox can handle files
<Bagder>	you mean the dir browser?
<alan>	yea
<Bagder>	right
<alan>	once yo scan a directory
<Bagder>	that should be a lot smarter, indeed
<alan>	so "*.mp3" is a wrong example ;)
<Bagder>	no
<Bagder>	the files are still named .mp3
<Bagder>	suppose author "Mr Doe" wants to write his own app
<alan>	continue
<Bagder>	he wants to store movies on his archos
<alan>	and ?
<Bagder>	and then scan for them recursively
<Bagder>	then we could use wildcards
<Bagder>	we=>he
<alan>	???
<Bagder>	never mind
<edx>	or he has to write his own wildcard function ;)
<Bagder>	exactly
<Bagder>	or do it another way
<alan>	i'm just speaking a way to disguish directory, playlists and mp3 files from others files
<Bagder>	I'm not
<alan>	usually you want only those three kinds of files
<Bagder>	usually yes
<alan>	using "*.[mp3|m3u]" is not the best way, without speaking about directories
<alan>	oh yes i see a problem
<alan>	can readdir see a directory ?
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	all directory entries
<alan>	ok but how can you know if it is a directory ?
<Bagder>	there's a flag field too or something
<alan>	i hope
<edx>	c:\Programming\CVS Checkout\RockBox\uisimulator\win32\file-win32.cpp(33): error C2065: 'new' : undeclared identifier
<edx>	what the heck!
*	Zagor groans. C++ !
<Zagor>	;)
<edx>	ohhh
<Zagor>	just kidding
<alan>	edx, you compile as a C or a C++ ?
<edx>	C
<edx>	used malloc. works
<alan>	but you use a cpp file
<edx>	another thing.. _finddata_t is not defined
<edx>	yea a cpp file
<edx>	but i compile as c
<Bagder>	heh
<alan>	okay the trouble is here
<Zagor>	odd choice of name for a C file...
<Bagder>	that's confusing
<alan>	for C, operator new is not defined
<edx>	hmhmhm
<edx>	now if i use c it is also compatible to cpp files ;)
<edx>	no matter.. ill rename them
<alan>	and don't use cpp, but c extension
<alan>	i'm sure you create this file without having a look on the extension ;)
<edx>	yea
<edx>	i used c extension now
<edx>	well i had a look at the extension
<edx>	thought about it too late
<edx>	cpp is standard extension so i just didnt change it
<alan>	normally compiler, when it finds a .cpp extension switchs to c++
<edx>	i disabled that.
<edx>	hmm it still has a very strange error.
<alan>	yes but just remember it for the next time
<edx>	typedef _finddata_t DIR;
<edx>	it does not recoginize _finddata_t
<alan>	what is _finddata_t DIR; ?
<edx>	i included io.h
<edx>	i define the type DIR
<alan>	nope
<edx>	it is supposed to be _finddata_t
<Bagder>	you need to commit some files if you want our help properly
<alan>	i mean the other structure
<edx>	it is a "system internal" strucutre
<edx>	definde in io.h
<alan>	yes i see
<alan>	by the way i see a filename of 260 chars instead of 256
<alan>	you're right, Bagder, open is defined in io.h...
<Zagor>	"Long names are limited to 255 characters, not including the trailing NUL." -- Microsoft FAT32 document
<alan>	it is for a filename
<alan>	but 260 should be for a pathname
<Zagor>	path lengts are max 260 yes
<Bagder>	in fat?
<Zagor>	yes
<alan>	nope for windows :)
<Zagor>	right :)
<alan>	so we know there is no point to try to handle pathnames longer then 260 in rockbox
<alan>	if windows can do it
*	Bagder snickers devlishly....
<Zagor>	yeah, they'll love us if we create files they can't read in windows...
<Bagder>	but otoh, who would create them?
<Zagor>	we :)
<Zagor>	fat_create_dir(), fat_create_file()
<Bagder>	"to be able to use this product, you must first put a file here => [261 letters]" ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
*	Zagor hungre
*	Zagor needs food
<alan>	hey try to imagine that we have a longer pathname created with rockbox, how will windows react ? truncated files ?
*	Zagor go shop
<ironi>	me too
<ironi>	im going to order a pizza
*	Bagder considers pizza too...
<Zagor>	i had pizza yesterday
<alan>	edx: you use _findfirst/next/close ?
<edx>	i updated cvs files for ui simulator.. anyone who has a win32 compiler and can tell me what is wrong?
<edx>	alan: yea
<edx>	alan: only findfirst right now
<alan>	hum it is really rare i compile with VC
<edx>	alan: even typedef of DIR doesnt work :(
<alan>	i can try
<edx>	ok.. :)
---	Zagor is now known as Zagor|shopping
<edx>	hwo come you can go shoppign on saturdays.. 
<edx>	not in Germany :(
<edx>	lol
<ironi>	Bagder, =)
<ironi>	Bagder, a kebab-pizza in jönköping is soooo good.
<Bagder>	he's not in Germany... :-)
<ironi>	they don't make them like that in 08
<Bagder>	a bit far for me to order I guess ;-)
<edx>	so you can go shopping on saturdays in Sweden?
<Bagder>	yes
<edx>	hmm we should have that in Germany too :?
<ironi>	on sundays too
<ironi>	edx, dont you have malls?
<ironi>	edx, but of course the grocery stores are open all day in weekens also in germany
<ironi>	i would love to have ALDI here, itä's so cheap
<edx>	ironi, im afraid not
<alan>	oh sh*t it takes time to checkout :((
<edx>	ironi, no
<ironi>	when i wa sin st. louis i shopped a lot at aldi's, cause it was so good prices
<Bagder>	poor modem
<edx>	LOL @ Aldi
<ironi>	LADI rocks
<ironi>	ALDI
<edx>	prices are ok, indeed :)
<alan>	edx, what file i must open ?
<alan>	.sln ?
<edx>	alan, re-checkout... i added a few files that were missing - sorry
<edx>	the vcprj file
<alan>	my VC has no associate application with vcprj !? shouldn't be .prj ?
<edx>	ok you got VC++ 6?
<edx>	then you have to recreate a project file :/
<edx>	i use vc7
<alan>	yea vc6
<Bagder>	edx: you might want a slightly different solution anyway
<edx>	hmm i gotta go eating...
<edx>	bagder: makefile?
---	edx is now known as edx|eating
<Bagder>	edx|eating: the DIR struct myst have a d_name[] entry
<Bagder>	so you need to have your own DIR struct
<edx|eating>	the dirent has that.. the DIR as well?
<Bagder>	ah
<Bagder>	silly me
<edx|eating>	:)
<Bagder>	you're right
<edx|eating>	cya in a few mins
*	Bagder hides
<edx|eating>	heh
<alan>	edx: please generate a makefile
<alan>	not all people have vc7
<alan>	you should find a way to allow other vc version to compile your program.
*	Bagder thinks alan is right
<alan>	edx: normally your vc7 has an option to generate this makefile
<alan>	hum, i wonder if i wouldn't use SDL...
---	Zagor|shopping is now known as Zagor
<Bagder>	:-)
<--	ironi has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<alan>	just for info, here is the link for SDL : http://www.libsdl.org/intro/toc.html
<alan>	yes i know you wouldn't code with it
<alan>	:)
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	but I don't need to if you do it ;-)
<Bagder>	I could do it too actually
<Bagder>	one day
<alan>	see you
<--	alan has quit ()
*	Zagor just realized fat_open() has no purpose
<Zagor>	linus just called to say the donated archos works fine
*	Bagder horrays
<Zagor>	it's a 4.53g version, so it's got a new lcd after all
<Bagder>	did he try the serial port?
<Zagor>	not yet. we want to be more careful this time, so we'll wait until monday when we can test with the remote control first
<Bagder>	good idea
<Zagor>	but that means they stopped using the old lcd very early
<Zagor>	i'm curious how many people actually have the old model
<Bagder>	can't be that many
<Zagor>	no
<Bagder>	we want the full donated-archos-story on the web/mailling list later
<Zagor>	yep
<Zagor>	didn't someone offer to produce irc digests?
<Bagder>	adiamas did
<Zagor>	that would be great, since so much discussion is off-list
<Bagder>	yep
<Bagder>	no commit mails so far today...
<Zagor>	i woke up late :)
<Bagder>	but things have been committed
<Bagder>	only not arrived by mail
<Zagor>	ah, ok
<Zagor>	problem with the sf mailserver then, I guess
<Bagder>	likely, yes
---	edx|eating is now known as edx
<edx>	hey... cool i am about to get my first makefile working lol
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	welcome to the bright side :)
<edx>	always the same lame comment :P
<edx>	hihi
<edx>	how are resources compiled *unskilled*
<Zagor>	that's a windows question. we're all unix ponytails here :)
<Zagor>	but I think there's a Resource Compiler. maybe rc.exe ?
<Bagder>	I don't even know what "ressources" are
<edx>	ok
<edx>	lol
<Zagor>	we have complete faith in you :)
<Bagder>	edx is our man!
<edx>	lol
<edx>	the makefile is working *great*
<Bagder>	goodie
<edx>	ok.. cleanup code missing
<edx>	hmm.. maybe someone of you could look over the makefile again.. i am sure i did some stupid things in there
<Zagor>	is it committed?
<edx>	yup
<Zagor>	the last all: line looks a bit odd
<edx>	what should it look like?
<Zagor>	you should probably have this instead
<Zagor>	uisw32.exe: $(OBJS)
<Zagor>	    $(CC) $(LDFLAGS) $(OBJS)
<Zagor>	i think
<edx>	hmmm aha
<Zagor>	but i'm not sure how to link on win32
<edx>	i dont really know what it all means - i just guess ;)
<Zagor>	you want $(LIBS) there too
<Zagor>	ok, then you need a crash course in make!
<edx>	uisw32.exe: $(OBJS)
<edx>	 $(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(SRCS) $(LIBS) $(LDFLAGS)
<Zagor>	make is a golden tool, you should learn it.
<edx>	if i have this it says it doesnt know how to make blabla.o
<Zagor>	the second line is the command line you want to use to link the appliction together
<Zagor>	which make are you using?
<Zagor>	nmake?
<edx>	yea
<edx>	i know what whas wrong
<edx>	its not .o it is .obj
<Zagor>	ah, change OBJS = $(SRCS:.c=.o) to OBJS = $(SRCS:.c=.obj)
<edx>	yup
<edx>	just did that
<edx>	works
<Zagor>	nice
<edx>	but it does much more than it did before
<edx>	it compiles everything twice (?)
<edx>	lol
<Zagor>	twice?
<edx>	like once for each object and then the command line that follows
<edx>	$(CC) $(CFLAGS) $(SRCS) $(LIBS) $(LDFLAGS)
<edx>	thsi one
<Bagder>	yes
<Bagder>	you should remove the SRCS from the link line
<edx>	i only need this one line actually
<edx>	ah ok
<Zagor>	ahhh yes
<Zagor>	missed that
*	Zagor realizes that fat_read() gets very complex without fat_open(), so adds it again :)
<edx>	LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file '../../firmware/drivers/lcd.o
<edx>	bj'
<edx>	hm
<edx>	the output file is generated inside the current dir
<edx>	can i specify the source directories via a compiler parameter>
<edx>	?
<Zagor>	yes
<Zagor>	but this should work
<edx>	i does not
<edx>	it produces the output file inside the wrong directory
<edx>	what is the parameter.. ?
<Zagor>	that's compiler specific
<Bagder>	bbl
<--	Bagder has quit ("http://daniel.haxx.se")
<edx>	hmmmm...
<edx>	ahh
<edx>	i see how daniel did it.. *testing*
<Zagor>	yay. fat_read() now works.
<edx>	cool :)
<edx>	i fixed the makefile
<edx>	it works now
<Zagor>	nice
<edx>	shall it remove the obj files after linking?
<Zagor>	no
<edx>	ok
<Zagor>	the obj files are used to check which source files are modified
<edx>	i know.. just thought ;)
<Zagor>	so it doesn't have to recomile unmodified sources
<Zagor>	hehe
<Zagor>	make a "clean" target that removes obj files
<Zagor>	that's the normal way
<edx>	now alan can try to compile and help me fix the other error with the file-win32.h file :/
<Zagor>	that's good
<edx>	when is this clean target processed?
<Zagor>	manually
<Zagor>	"make clean"
<edx>	$(RM) *.obj
<edx>	?
<Zagor>	only if you have an RM variable defined
<edx>	yea i just defined it
<Zagor>	otherwise just "del $(OBJS)"
<Zagor>	you don't need a variable, really
<edx>	im about to understand the makefile thing :)
<Zagor>	yeah, it's not difficult. but very useful.
<edx>	yup.
<edx>	but a finished makefile looks damn freaky for a newbie like me :)
<Zagor>	hehe, yeah maybe. but then again all kinds of files look freaky when you don't understand them
<edx>	yea...
<edx>	do you get a mail for everything i commit *sorry for committing that much*
<Zagor>	normally, yes. but currently there seems to be something wrong with the sourceforge mail server
<Zagor>	don't worry about committing much. that's what cvs is here for
<edx>	maybe its down because i spammed it with commits (haha)
<Zagor>	:)
*	edx can't wait to wear his rockbox shirt
*	edx is angry that he misspelled irc server
<Zagor>	hehe
<edx>	irc.openprojects.net... why dont they set up an irc server there?
<edx>	aehmm. org
<edx>	irc.openprojects.org
<edx>	lol
<Zagor>	yeah, i was surprised their dns hasn't fixed that
<edx>	well.. maybe it will be someday... then the shirt is fixed too lol
<Zagor>	why not mail them and ask/suggest?
<edx>	hmm good idea
<Zagor>	(don't mention the tshirt :)
<edx>	Ladies and Gentlemen, due to the fact that i misspelled your server on a *very* important shirt, i want you to open an irc server on irc.openprojects.org ...
<edx>	LOL
<Zagor>	maybe not the best chance of success :)
<edx>	that was rather a joke ;)
<Zagor>	yes, i understood
<edx>	i need somebeody do fix that bug in file-win32.h i just cant do it
<Zagor>	i'll take a look
<edx>	hm you cant compile it... you want to see the error messages?
<Zagor>	ok
<edx>	c:\Programming\CVS Checkout\RockBox\uisimulator\win32\file-win32.h(27): error C2061: syntax error : identifier 'DIR'
<edx>	c:\Programming\CVS Checkout\RockBox\uisimulator\win32\file-win32.h(27): error C2059: syntax error : ';'
<Zagor>	well where is DIR defined?
<edx>	that means that _filedata_t is not defined for any reason. but i do include io.h
<edx>	dir is defined right in that line
<edx>	typedef _finddata_t DIR;
<Zagor>	ah
<Zagor>	strange
<edx>	indeed...
<Zagor>	you should probably free(p) before return NULL;
<edx>	that is a good idea
<edx>	i did nto code any further when the DIR thing didnt work
<Zagor>	i understand
<edx>	hmmmm that is so strange
<edx>	looking at io.hi find something really interesting:
<edx>	#ifndef _POSIX_
<edx>	maybe io.h supports the posix functions :D
<Zagor>	yes i think it might
<edx>	ok.. one more thing i can try.. just rip the definition out of io.h an paste them before the DIR typedef lol
<edx>	(this is not afinal solution of course)
<Zagor>	haha
<Zagor>	whatever works
<edx>	hmmm if i include io.h AND define the struct it says redefinition
<edx>	something is *very* bad about this...
<edx>	#define DIR _finddata_t
<edx>	lol
<edx>	the problem is not the DIR thing. the problem is teh _finddata_t definition - it must be somewhat strange
<Zagor>	what if it's a macro?
<edx>	it is not a macro - i looked at it
<Zagor>	ok
<edx>	struct _finddata_t {
<edx>	        unsigned    attrib;
<edx>	        time_t      time_create;    /* -1 for FAT file systems */
<edx>	        time_t      time_access;    /* -1 for FAT file systems */
<edx>	        time_t      time_write;
<edx>	        _fsize_t    size;
<edx>	        char        name[260];
<edx>	};
<edx>	does typedef work with structs in C?
<edx>	lol
<Zagor>	yes
<edx>	it must be somethign really stuped
<edx>	stupid
<edx>	if I put dirent there it wont work either
<edx>	maybe it is the DIR - it is defined somewhere else??!!!
<edx>	hm no it is not
-->	elinenbe (trilluser@bgp01080511bgs.wanarb01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #rockbox
<edx>	hi
<Zagor>	hi elinenbe
<elinenbe>	hey there.  You sure have been busy.
<edx>	brb
<elinenbe>	I looks like the fat32 code is coming along.
<--	edx has quit ()
<Zagor>	are you getting the mails?
<Zagor>	i dont
-->	edx (edx@pD950D222.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	cvs mails, i mean
<edx>	oh finally.. it hadnt logged the irc sessions before
---	edx is now known as edx|
---	edx| is now known as edx
<Zagor>	but, yes, the fat32 code is coming along nicely. i just got read() working and am writing seek() right now
<elinenbe>	In a Mr. Burns tone: exxxxcellent
<Zagor>	hehe
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<edx>	hi
<Bagder>	hi again
*	Zagor grooves to Electric Skychurc
<edx>	is that a band? lol
<Zagor>	if that ain't a trip :)
<edx>	what is that?
<Zagor>	it's ambient dub
<Zagor>	electronic smooth beats
<edx>	heh
<Zagor>	silk for your soul :)
*	Zagor is a poet
*	edx grooves to emil bulls hard-rock (lol)
<edx>	you dont know emil bulls in Sweden, do you?
<Zagor>	well at least I don't. hard rock is not my taste.
<edx>	hehe :) they are German - they sing English but I guess they are not known anywhere but in Germany
<Zagor>	seek() done, time for long filenames
<Bagder>	kewlness
<edx>	great
*	Zagor is in The Zone :)
*	Bagder thinks Zagor listens to weird music
<edx>	what music do you listen to, Bagder ;)
<Bagder>	http://storebror.haxx.se:443
<Zagor>	oh, he's very middle-of-the-road...
<Bagder>	try my stream
<edx>	just doing :)
<edx>	cool...
<edx>	what a quality
<edx>	i like the music :)
<edx>	what is this?
<edx>	*hey stream's gone*
<Bagder>	what does your player?
<Bagder>	say
<Bagder>	heh
<edx>	nothing
<Zagor>	look in the player window, the title shows there
<edx>	youst wont play anyithin.. 
<Zagor>	press play again
<Bagder>	try again
<Zagor>	some tracks don't have an id3 tag
<Bagder>	my server runs all the time
<Bagder>	they should appear based on file name I think
<edx>	lol it says nothing for the title...
<edx>	but what is it
*	edx needs that as well
<Bagder>	heh
<Bagder>	I have only 3000 files on that stream
<Zagor>	Bagder: I found some tracks just don't show anything
*	edx laughs out loudly!
<Bagder>	which player do you have edx?
<edx>	*only* 3000 files??!
<edx>	windows media player ;)
<Bagder>	hm ok
<edx>	how many GB of mp3s do you have?
<Bagder>	I've mainly listened with winamp
<Bagder>	that's about 15-16
<edx>	(wmp = the lames music listen tool there is haha)
<Zagor>	bjorn:~/music>find . -name "*.mp3" | wc -l
<Zagor>	   5588
<Zagor>	:)
<edx>	heh
<Bagder>	3189 here actually
<Zagor>	the best part: they all fit on my archos
<Bagder>	edx: try this http://storebror.haxx.se/mp3/
<edx>	hehe
*	edx found 6783 mp3s on his hd
<edx>	that music repository is cool :)
*	elinenbe found 10095 MP3s <-- all Depeche Mode!
<Zagor>	hehe
<edx>	loool
<Zagor>	they sure are productive, those DMers
<edx>	what tool do you use to set up those streams?
<Bagder>	ample
<Bagder>	ampl.sf.net
<Bagder>	ample.sf.net
*	edx does not know that
<Bagder>	dead simple little thing
<Bagder>	as it should be
<edx>	is it for windows too?
<Bagder>	its full source
<Bagder>	but *nix style
<Bagder>	so you'd need to fiddle ;-)
<edx>	too sad :)
<Bagder>	get cygwin and it'll be less fiddling :-)
<edx>	is it command line or xwindow?
<Bagder>	neither
<Bagder>	its a server
<Bagder>	it says nothing, it just runs ;-)
<edx>	even better
<Bagder>	the way it should be, imho
<edx>	but the file accessing functions will have to be changed.. *too much work*
<Bagder>	not if you build with cygnus
<edx>	yea well...
<Zagor>	how much unix-specific code can it be?
<Bagder>	dir-reading
<Zagor>	socket stuff, yeah
<Bagder>	just about
<Bagder>	nah, most socket stuff works the same
<Zagor>	ok
<Bagder>	"most"
<Bagder>	like close needs to be replaced with closesocket()
<edx>	hmmm ...  ill have a look at it..
<edx>	hey.. only 10 files
<edx>	that looks like one could actually do it
<Bagder>	its only 6 source files
<Bagder>	hey, I bet that if you do it nicely and mail back a diff to the guy, he'll be grateful
*	Bagder did that already
<edx>	hmmm
<edx>	waht does config.h
<edx>	in linux?
<Bagder>	its is commonly generated by a script
<Bagder>	defining what features your particular machine/OS/CPU/environment has
<edx>	it is not included with the source though
<Bagder>	no, since it is generated
<Bagder>	you wanna see how mine looks like?
<edx>	ok
<edx>	vsnprintf
<edx>	is that the smae as sprintf
<Bagder>	almost
<Bagder>	http://storebror.haxx.se/ample-config.h
<edx>	whats the difference?
<edx>	thanks
<Bagder>	check vsprintf(), you must have that in windows too
<Zagor>	the 'v' means it takes variable arguments from your input parameters
<Bagder>	the extra n is only for the extra argument specifying the maximum output length
<edx>	but it does not take int as second parameter
<--	elinenbe has quit ("ChatZilla 0.8.6 [Mozilla rv:0.9.9+/20020414]")
*	edx does not have the time to work through all that right now
<Bagder>	I fully understand that 
<edx>	heh.. i guess it would need a week of free time to fully translate it
<edx>	there are tools for windows, certainly
<Bagder>	sure
<Bagder>	but finding a good free one is another issue probably
<Bagder>	windows is polluted with silly shareware and expensive software
<edx>	sure
<edx>	well - it is like free software most of the time - I dont spend too much money on software ;)
<edx>	i just found a mp3server.. im gonna try it :)
<edx>	16kb/sek arent enough anyways lol
<edx>	check this out:
<edx>	http://codeforce.d2g.com:12345/file
<edx>	username: edx / pw: edxmp3
<Bagder>	is a stream somewhere too?
<Bagder>	is there
<edx>	click on a file... should work.. 
<edx>	well it just links to the mp3
<edx>	hmm
<Bagder>	yes, then I download the mp3
<edx>	well in windows you listen to it directly if you want to
<Bagder>	but only one file at a time
<edx>	*cool - accessing all my mp3s from school*
<edx>	jup
<Bagder>	ha
<edx>	not comparable to ample
<Bagder>	fun anyway ;-)
<edx>	yea
<edx>	hm i have to reconfigure.. right now it acccesses mp3s via LAN - ill store only a few mp3s on the server - then they are even accessable if my computer is not turned on
<edx>	well... gotta go... 
<edx>	good n8 :)_
<Bagder>	bye edx
---	edx is now known as edx|sleeping
<Zagor>	bye
<Bagder>	good neight? ;-)
<Zagor>	sounds dutch
<edx|sleeping>	LOL
<Bagder>	I wonder what it means? ;-)
<edx|sleeping>	haha
<edx|sleeping>	if somebody with windows ever gets here tell him to debug my code :o)
<edx|sleeping>	cya
<Bagder>	yes sir!
*	Zagor just realised he has a strawberry/cheesecake ice cream in the freezer
<Zagor>	mmmm...
<Bagder>	yikes
<Zagor>	vfat is a mess
<Zagor>	fat32 is alright, but vfat is really bad
<Zagor>	each name is split into (up to) 13 entries
<Zagor>	each entry is split into 3 parts
<Zagor>	and to top it off
<Zagor>	the entries are stored backwards
*	Zagor is crying
<Bagder>	vfat, that's for the long file names only?
<Zagor>	yes
<Bagder>	you committed any working code?
-->	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox
<Zagor>	not yet
<Zagor>	hey, linus!
<Linus>	Yo!
<Bagder>	I'm curious
<Bagder>	hej Linus
<Linus>	Hejsan!
<Linus>	Whazzup?
<Zagor>	fat32 is working. open/read/seek is done. grinding away on vfat now.
<Linus>	Ninja!
<Zagor>	Bagder: clarification: I have committed the working fat32 code, but not any vfat code
<Bagder>	so, theoreticly we should be closing in on reading a file now
*	Bagder updates
<Zagor>	yes. but we need the upper layer written
<Bagder>	right
<Zagor>	the fat code handles sectors, not bytes
<Zagor>	i figured that would be a fair tradeoff
<Zagor>	so the upper layer handles accesses for bytes within a sector
<Zagor>	agreed?
<Linus>	Fair enough.
<Bagder>	indeed
<Zagor>	yesss... single-entry longnames working.
<Bagder>	I bet they hardly ever occur ;-)
<Zagor>	hehe
<Bagder>	are they fixed-size per entry?
<Zagor>	all files get longname entries, no matter the length, since longname entries have fewer restrictions on the name
<Zagor>	yes, 13 characters per entry 
<Zagor>	wooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
<Zagor>	works
<Zagor>	C:\> dir
<Zagor>	ata: Reading sector 76
<Zagor>	config-player.h (59)
<Zagor>	config-playerold.h (60)
<Zagor>	now on to cross-sector names...
<Bagder>	really neat prompt you made for your test program ;-)
<Bagder>	good old DOS-style
*	Zagor blames Linus
<Bagder>	yeah yeah we all do that
<Bagder>	:-)
<Zagor>	hehe
*	Linus denies everything
<Zagor>	bläääää, longnames can span THREE sectors :-(
*	Zagor needs a new strategy
*	Linus need som sleep to cope with the MAS music orgy tomorrow... :-)
<Zagor>	hehe. good night
<Bagder>	:-)
<Bagder>	nighty nighty
<Linus>	Zagor. The charger is fried on your new archos. I will try to find out what needs to be replaced.
<Zagor>	ok
<Linus>	Nighty.
<--	Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has left #rockbox
